Help me understand: Permit seems pointless

[ljsommer]

So I've been posting lately about this Wynoochee permit that I drew (first permit I've drawn). It's a late season cow archery tag.
When I drew the tag I was excited, thinking that since it was a permit, it must be a good opportunity. Because I was a bit blinded by excitement I didn't even look at the harvest rate for that unit. It's 3%.

Recently I looked at 660, just south of Wynoochee (648). It's antlerless or 3pt+ by default, no permit necessary, and it has an 18% harvest rate. Now, there's no late season, but that success rate difference is staggering and those two units are less than an hour away.

So my question is this: How is this even a "permit"? Are there other lottery draws like this that are winnable but mostly worthless? I wish I'd realized this disparity earlier because instead of spending so much time in Wynoochee I would've spent that time in 660 instead.

[ljsommer]

Oh and just to clarify: This post is all about data from WDFW. I am comparing seasons, allowable animals and harvest rates. That's all. "On paper", so to speak.

[buckfvr]

IMO at least half the permits are junk.

[boneaddict]

  or more, and even some of the  ones that were once great are worthless compared to what they were.

[ljsommer]

Out of curiosity has anyone ever asked a WDFW official about this? i am planning on calling a biologist in the region and asking a couple questions and this is something I'll be asking him about. It wouldn't be so surprising if the two units that I am comparing (648 vs 660) weren't literally right next to one another (they share a border). Obviously that's only a pertinent data point as it pertains to human movement - not very relevant to elk populations or movements.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

For starters, 660 is mostly Weyerhauser land and you need their land use permit to hunt there.  Since the number of permits given out is limited, that skewers the success rates. (less hunters/same amount of animals = better success rate)  648 has quite a bit of National Forest so anyone can hunt there in the general season. 660 has been logged heavily the last few years so there is a lot of good habitat and browse and openings where you can spot animals easier. 648 has a lot less logging activity in the National forest part and many areas are grown up and past their prime for habitat/browse. And while there are still animals in there, the hunting can be tough, brushy, and steep, which also affects harvest rates.

[blackpowderhunter]

while tags might not be as good as they once were.....my opinion (which may not be worth much) is that if you are going to put in for a special permit..you should know about that hunt.  i put in for "quality" elk tags for the units i general season hunt, because i am constantly learning the areas.  i personally wouldn't waste my anterless "points" on a hunt i know nothing about.
have you ever been in the unit in the late season?  are you purely basing your unhappiness with these success numbers before even putting boots on the ground in the unit during  the late season?
i'm not trying to start an argument, im just saying this could be a great hunt.

[ljsommer]

For starters, 660 is mostly Weyerhauser land and you need their land use permit to hunt there.  Since the number of permits given out is limited, that skewers the success rates. (less hunters/same amount of animals = better success rate)  648 has quite a bit of National Forest so anyone can hunt there in the general season. 660 has been logged heavily the last few years so there is a lot of good habitat and browse and openings where you can spot animals easier. 648 has a lot less logging activity in the National forest part and many areas are grown up and past their prime for habitat/browse. And while there are still animals in there, the hunting can be tough, brushy, and steep, which also affects harvest rates.

I guess what I am saying is that if you looked at nothing but the numbers provided by the WDFW itself, I "won" a permit that isn't worth much more than the paper it's printed on. 3% is abysmally low. Why this is even a lottery is what's confusing me.

[bobcat]

That hunt had a 14% success rate in 2018, which isn't terrible for archery, especially a late season hunt. It's best not to apply if you're not already familiar with the unit. But you can see it's a relatively popular permit, with 223 applications for 110 permits. It certainly gives you a much better opportunity to kill an elk, and you can also hunt bulls at the same time in the same unit under the general season.

[ljsommer]

That hunt had a 14% success rate in 2018, which isn't terrible for archery, especially a late season hunt. It's best not to apply if you're not already familiar with the unit. But you can see it's a relatively popular permit, with 223 applications for 110 permits. It certainly gives you a much better opportunity to kill an elk, and you can also hunt bulls at the same time in the same unit under the general season.

Oh? I am curious where you're seeing that data because I haven't found that on the harvest reports. The "special hunt" view doesn't appear to give success percentage, only the "general".
Yes, I agree, 14% isn't bad at all for archery.

[bobcat]

Go to "Elk: Individual Hunts"

[ljsommer]

Go to "Elk: Individual Hunts"

Awesome this is really important information! I totally missed that. Thanks bobcat!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Go to "Elk: Individual Hunts"

I was gonna post the same thing about the success rate of that particular hunt but you beat me to it Bob.  The new web site design is taking me some getting used to, to find things.  I hate having to get re-trained.

[ljsommer]

Fantastic thanks for the info this is exactly the sort of info I was hoping to find (something to explain the value of this permit).

[Igottanewknee]

Go to "Elk: Individual Hunts"

Awesome this is really important information! I totally missed that. Thanks bobcat!

I think I've said it before. If you got a question, there's an extremely high percentage that Bobcat has the answer or can find it in a heartbeat. Nice to have guys like that on this site.