Points are the Devil!

[ctwiggs1]

Think how much some hunters have invested in points in states where non residents are required to purchase a hunting lisc and then a special permit app just to apply then to pay more for the points. Is it right to start everyone back at zero when they have that much invested?

I’d give all my points back in any state that I have them and not think twice about the money I’ve paid.  8 years in Utah and Wyoming isn’t necessarily cheap. 4 years in Colorado also.

I'd give you all of my points if you'd teach me how to just SEE a buck like the one in your avatar 

[bobcat]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

[mburrows]

Its great if you have 20 points in the bank but its a real pisser when you reset or you want to get your kid going.

You're certainly right about the frustrating aspects of the point system for a kid or other new hunter starting from zero.
When it comes to having 20 points though, it's not a sure thing even at that point level in Washington. I recently checked draw odds for deer and elk (never mind the OIL species) in Washington when goHunt started offering data for the state. I almost had to literally pick my jaw off the floor when I saw single digit draw odds for some deer and elk hunts even when the applicant has over 20 points...

Just wait until they update the with the draw odds from 2019 after they cut back all the permits.  Your draw odds for a quality archery elk tag in the colockum last year were 3.5% with 23 points. Its not inconceivable to think somebody with 5-10 points in their early 30's may never draw a quality tag in WA.

[Karl Blanchard]

Think how much some hunters have invested in points in states where non residents are required to purchase a hunting lisc and then a special permit app just to apply then to pay more for the points. Is it right to start everyone back at zero when they have that much invested?

I’d give all my points back in any state that I have them and not think twice about the money I’ve paid.  8 years in Utah and Wyoming isn’t necessarily cheap. 4 years in Colorado also.

I'd give you all of my points if you'd teach me how to just SEE a buck like the one in your avatar 

oh you can't teach that level of special 😂

[Buckhunter24]

The way I understand Oregon is a percent of tags are points and a percent are completely random. Seems like that could be a good transition or compromise for WA. As a latecomer to anything other than OTC It looks like a longshot for me to hunt elk in the east slopes of the cascades lol

[JimmyHoffa]

If I had to give up all my points tomorrow, I totally would.  It's a worthless game.

That being said, I'm not totally convinced it would give me that good of an opportunity to hunt more game.  We have a population 5x higher than ID, 10x+ Wyoming and about 6-7x Montana.  At the end of the day, we have way more people here.  It is what it is.

General population, not hunters and definitely not non-resident hunters.

[JimmyHoffa]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

I would guess that once the state is 'packed' with wolves, it will go permit only--if not sooner.  Maybe just elk and muleys first, then white/blacktail.  Just have to figure if WDFW would be calculating permits off a harvest needed or revenue.  They like to sell 'opportunity' not animals, so that could be the way to clear points and keep revenue.

[BULLBLASTER]

Think how much some hunters have invested in points in states where non residents are required to purchase a hunting lisc and then a special permit app just to apply then to pay more for the points. Is it right to start everyone back at zero when they have that much invested?

I’d give all my points back in any state that I have them and not think twice about the money I’ve paid.  8 years in Utah and Wyoming isn’t necessarily cheap. 4 years in Colorado also.

I'd give you all of my points if you'd teach me how to just SEE a buck like the one in your avatar 

It’s easy. Bumble around long enough to get bored then decide to go follow a elk where you don’t have a elk tag and bumble around some more then they just appear in the spotter.   

[Bigshooter]

Every system has its pros and cons obviously.

Part of the homework Karl is talking about....   As a non-resident applying out of state you need to pay attention to each system, not just where you want to hunt etc.   Many  states have caps on Non-residents.  You need to pay attention to how many tags are even available.   Its very easy to apply for a hunt where there isnt even a non resident tag available.   I see it every year when looking at stats.   They will gladly take your cash.   You are essentially handing them your money with ZERO chance of drawing.   This is more pertinent with OIL hunts where tag numbers are low.

Getting lower every year too.  Thanks to the wolves.

I can get a tag in every western state for deer or elk every year.  It might not be "the best" tag/unit or with a rifle.  But there are plenty of tags to get every year.  And it's not hard to figure out.

[Bigshooter]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

[huntnphool]

Think how much some hunters have invested in points in states where non residents are required to purchase a hunting lisc and then a special permit app just to apply then to pay more for the points. Is it right to start everyone back at zero when they have that much invested?

My comments were purely based on WA getting rid of the system.

+1

[idahohuntr]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

[huntnphool]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

+1

[walleye1]

I don't really have a problem with the points systems in any states. I think most people are clueless on how different each are. The biggest problem is people's unrealistic expectations of getting a coveted tag. If you want the coveted tags you'll probably never get them. If you want to hunt  you will get tags.

[Buckjunkie]

Between my son and I, we have 330 points spread across 7 states. I have been buying points since 1994. I am not rich, so I budget for this investment because it’s the only way I will ever have a chance to hunt some of these animals.

I like the various draw systems because it allows me to plan. If every state was random or like Washington you will have years with too many tags and years without any tags.