New member post and a question

[Wahoo]

Just wanted to say hi as this is my first post. I have been lurking for around a month and must say this is by far the best Washington State hunting forum I have found. Great site and good job to those who are running it.

Now my question. As I am reading all the posts and specifically the ones where the hunter has a east side branched elk tag or a late season mule tag it raises a question within me. I now have 11 Elk points and 10 deer points. Am I as unlucky as I think I am or is there a lot of people in my situation and we just have to wait our turns.

Just curious if anybody has any facts so I can either be more superstitious come draw time or just relax and realize I am not alone.

Thanks,
Wahoo

[hogsniper]

i dont have as many as u but i do have 9 elk, 9 deer, 9 moose....soo i am keepin my fingers crossed so one day i get to hunt right where i want...good luck tho...Justin

[jackelope]

you're not alone...just ask polarbear 

[Slider]

Wahoo when you apply for the draws do you select 4 choices? If not thats what you are doing wrong!!! People draw late Achery tags with 0 points!!! If so your just unlucky!!! Good Luck next year!!!

[jackelope]

what hunts are you putting on for?

[Moosehunt]

Unlucky.....no....just a product of a poor draw system.  It seems as if quite a few of our fellow hunters have the same misconception of the current permit system. 

Question back to you and everyone else....how many people truly think the draw system is 'weighted?' 

It's not a weighted system.  It's a lottery system.  In order to play you must purchase your chance.  You just get more chances in the bucket.  Someone with zero coming in and you with 9 points....that's 81:1 odds in your favor.  But guess what, the person with 0 points got drawn.  Not weighted at all, just an open lottery with odds pushed in your favor.  There are no 'turns' to be waiting with this flawed system.

[Wahoo]

Thanks everybody for your replies so far. As to what I am applying for every year I put in for 2 Eastside muzzleloader any bull permits followed with 2 late season antlerless AHE hunts. With all my points I have been lucky with the late season antlerless AHE hunts (which are awesome because they don't mess with my points) but would trade those hunts in a second to be able to chase a big bull on the Eastside. For deer I am not as disappointed about not drawing as I do put four hunts down but they are all late season mulie hunts which have low odds to begin with.

[Moosehunt]

How would you like this.......permit draw completed.....drawn for bull moose...results not validated, yet published online....WDFW realizes they made mistake and did not calculate bonus points.....online results removed, print screen made showing draw results....redraw held, not drawn for anything.  Happened to a friend of mine.

[jackelope]

moosehunt...it happened to more than just a friend of yours.

you really don't like the draw system. what type system would you rather have?

[Moosehunt]

I think we need to move to a truly weighted system.  1 point more than someone else and you get picked first.  I believe most of the western states operate under this system.  I think it rewards longevity.  It really becomes a political issue more than a management issue.  $'s drive the department.  As long as money continues to flow in, changes will not be made.  Why is it that WA holds the permit drawing so late in the year?  It's not because the bonus system is antiquated and hard to administer....it's because of the dollars brought in during the application period.

[boneaddict]

Not a good system once you are drawn.  As the numbers increase every year and more people have more points.  At least with this system you have luck.  There, you have none, you just get to predict possibly when you will get to hunt again.

Moose, in Washington, I drew with 3 points.  I now have 6 I believe in Wyoming.  A couple years ago that would have been enough to be drawn.  Now its anywhere from 9-12.  When I reach 9, it will be 15.  that might be as well for oince in a lifetime, but not real bright for deer or elk.  When you r child becomes 14, an age I puicked as an average for some kiddies that want to hunt.  He starts buying points.  Now its at 12 min to draw.  that means they don't even have a shot for 12 years.  When they reach 12, its now 20 some.  Get my point!

[jackelope]

if alls i wanted to do was put in for hunts and never get drawn, i'll just start putting in in utah.
i like the so-so odds i have of drawing a tag some time in my lifetime, and where i'm at points-wise...i'll need that.

[Moosehunt]

Point well taken (pardon the pun).  I still believe the system is flawed.  Should it be a combination of the two.....maybe benchmark the lottery, meaning set the threshold at 3 or 4 or 5, pay over time to play in the lottery.  Put in for a period of time and then become part of the lottery??  There will always be an argument between those that draw and those that don't.   I am a don't this year.  6 family members, all in for permits, some with high point totals, 2 of which are disabled, and zippo in the draw.   Don't like those odds at all.  Not complaining at all but I have to question it.  How can I be sure that I was included in the drawing, points administered correctly, results posted correctly?  Should the bonus point system be eliminated and only those that apply the year before get an extra chance?  I am just not confident in the WDFW to get it right.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I do not think any answer will be completely correct, or fair.
We all think our way is the best and want others to agree with us.
I would like to see it go to 1-2 choices for permits. that would help.
I would like to see people have to pay the whole cost up front for the special big game tags (moose, sheep, and goat). I think the points help, at least i have a chance to draw.
We put in for colorado and have to wait 5 years to hunt where we want to.

I did not like the way the drawing was run this year.

[boneaddict]

I think the bonus point system should be thrown out the window.  Its all about the greenback.  New Mexico and Idaho do not have it.  Guess what, applied for the first time in each and was drawn.  A moose tag in Idaho, and one of the most sought after elk tags in the world.  Arizona has the point system...guess what, I will never draw the Kiabab.  You have to buy theri license every year to get a point, 20 points later...no draw.  Whats 20 x 200 bucks.  Yep, all abou the green.  Back to Idaho.....first year for my Dad to apply, moose tag drawn.  What else does Idaho do to keep draw odds within reason.   Money up front, but you can only apply for one controlled tag.  If you want moose, you don't get to apply for elk or deer.  New Mexico is open for all, but EVERYONE HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE EVERY YEAR.   These bonus point systems are gearing up to keep people from only apply once in their lives.  Once they finally get drawn, they will never draw again.  It also limits youngin's from getting a lifetime draw.

Colorado describes the kind of draw you are talking about, for at least moose.  You essentially have to apply three years before even considered for a moose tag.  Once you have those 3 points, then you have the same chance as everyone else.