Baiting question.

[Cheif]

As with most of the regulations, it’s clear as mud.  10 gallon bait maximum period, at any time, or only during season while trying to kill with said tag? Ie; I have a muzzleloader loader and have more than 10 gallons of attractant during early archery season with no one hunting? Whatcha say?


Chief

[grundy53]

I think it's only considered baiting if you are hunting over it. But I'm not an expert.

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[HillHound]

I have been told by a game warden that it is 10 gallons anytime.

[jackelope]

“It is unlawful to HUNT for deer and elk...”

[Bango skank]

I have been told by a game warden that it is 10 gallons anytime.

Nope.  It clearly says "for the purpose of hunting" for the 10 gal limit.

[hunter399]

Doesn't it say right there with the intent to hunt.where does it say for the purpose of hunting
That tells me the warden will make that call.
Let the popcorn roll 

[Cheif]

Hmmmm. The penalty is steep, that's why I'm curious

[hunter399]

Purpose of attracting deer or elk with the intent to hunt.

I read it as if you have the intent to hunt .
Probably don't want more than ten gallons.
Also game cam,tree stands,any kind of hunting gear left at bait site may be evidence of intent to hunt.
Especially me cause I always carry a gun anyway to check cams and more than likely there is pics of me on the cam with gun.

All honestly I cut livestock saltblocks in half for each bait site.Then I take a small grocery bag of whatever to fresh it up a bit ,when checking cam.But mostly stick with salt products due to bears.

I just want to give the op sound advise.
But life is a risk -reward ,just hope the warden is in a good mood.

I gave my advise I'm out on this topic.
HI BANGO 

[brew]

in the game regs "hunt" does not necessarily mean to try and kill....the definition also says to "harass" whatever that means.  we taught hunters ed for many years and part of the class was to have a local game warden (LEO/whatever) come to the class and talk to the students.  This particular guy who just recently released a book that is talked about on this sight said on multiple occasions that his job was to write tickets and it was the judge's job to interpret the laws.  Kinda funny that one time he was there talking to the students and at the same time we also had a warden from Mason county there and they got into a huge argument concerning certain regs and we basically just called it a draw as there was no way this was going to be settled in front of the students.  Same Thurston county warden said that if you had a neoprene type sleeve on your stock that held extra shells he would write you a ticket for having a loaded gun.  I was there, I seen it and heard it and he was serious about writing the ticket.

[buglebrush]

in the game regs "hunt" does not necessarily mean to try and kill....the definition also says to "harass" whatever that means.  we taught hunters ed for many years and part of the class was to have a local game warden (LEO/whatever) come to the class and talk to the students.  This particular guy who just recently released a book that is talked about on this sight said on multiple occasions that his job was to write tickets and it was the judge's job to interpret the laws.  Kinda funny that one time he was there talking to the students and at the same time we also had a warden from Mason county there and they got into a huge argument concerning certain regs and we basically just called it a draw as there was no way this was going to be settled in front of the students.  Same Thurston county warden said that if you had a neoprene type sleeve on your stock that held extra shells he would write you a ticket for having a loaded gun.  I was there, I seen it and heard it and he was serious about writing the ticket.

Wow.  That Warden needs fired.

[jackelope]

Intent seems to be the kicker. Who defines intent?

[huntnnw]

quite a few people feed animals at their houses with no intent to hunt, Id have a hard time seeing a warden citing someone who isnt hunting. What if said individual doesnt hunt period and has never seen a "hunting regulation booklet"

[grundy53]

And just for a quick reference. A 50 pound bag of mineral fits in a 5 gallon bucket. So you can legally put out 100 pounds of mineral.

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[hunter399]

And just for a quick reference. A 50 pound bag of mineral fits in a 5 gallon bucket. So you can legally put out 100 pounds of mineral.

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I know you can take quite a bit, agreed.

I heard few years ago that this law was put in place due to people taking truck loads of apples and such out to the woods .

[huntnnw]

it is intended for that, I spoke to a warden about it. He said we are not trying to find and cite guys backpacking in stuff, its the dudes with tractors, trucks and trailers dumping 800lb bin s of apples ...umm certain guide outfits was what this was directed at in north central WA.

you cannot possibly regulate alfalfa unless its noticeably a large amount like a full round or large square . You can pack in little bits over time and its going to look 2,000 lbs on the ground. Deer will not eat stems or wet falfa

[Skyvalhunter]

So is there that much dumping of apples in that large of a quantity?

[hunter399]

So is there that much dumping of apples in that large of a quantity?

Yes it does happen from time to time.
A lot of it that pushed the law was people dumping apples next to a refuge or private land that they can't hunt .To try and get animals to cross the boundry .

But I have seen it since the law was passed.Seen a guy this last season durring bow season.I was bear hunting started to see few apples in the road here or there ,like a trail of them going down the dirt road.Came around the corner and there is a full pickup load right up to the edge of the bed full of apples.In this guys truck I'm following .we parted way at a y in the road never seen him again.I kinda just looked the other way.I had clearcuts to glass ,so I was a little busy.

[huntnnw]

it happens all over around chelan,methow etc. I know several who can get bins of apples for free

[jackelope]

So is there that much dumping of apples in that large of a quantity?

Yes, for sure. Claims I have heard in the past of mule deer migration routes changing due to dump truck loads of apples. I'm not qualified to know if that's even possible, but that's what I've heard. I know the giant apple dumps happen for sure.

[Buckhunter24]

And just for a quick reference. A 50 pound bag of mineral fits in a 5 gallon bucket. So you can legally put out 100 pounds of mineral.

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10 gallons of compressed alfalfa looks like a lot more than what I expected 10 gallons to look like. So much that I actually take pictures of the bale before and after now so I can show a warden if asked.. its also why I like the meatshelf on a pack, makes getting it back in very easy..

[Cheif]

So on private property, I should be able to use more than the 10 gallons for pictures and to help the wildlife out, right?

[hunter399]

So on private property, I should be able to use more than the 10 gallons for pictures and to help the wildlife out, right?

Game regulations don't stop at the private property line.
But with that said as long as your not giving permission to hunt or running a guide service off of your property.Your probably ok , cause the intent to hunt doesn't really start till hunting season On your own property.

[vandeman17]

So is there that much dumping of apples in that large of a quantity?

Yes, for sure. Claims I have heard in the past of mule deer migration routes changing due to dump truck loads of apples. I'm not qualified to know if that's even possible, but that's what I've heard. I know the giant apple dumps happen for sure.

Seen it first hand. Know it happens

[jackelope]

So on private property, I should be able to use more than the 10 gallons for pictures and to help the wildlife out, right?

Seems like as long as your intent is not to hunt those animals, then go for it.

[OutHouse]

Intent seems to be the kicker. Who defines intent?

That's a good question. Criminal intent is generally defined as acting with the objective of accomplishing the legally prohibited result. So if you put down more than the maximum amount allowed but are objectively not hunting, there is no intent. I think they would have to catch you at the bate site with the present means to hunt i.e. weapon etc. If they wanted to charge you anyway, I suppose you take the stand and explain that you were completely aware that it was in excess of ten gallons but that you had no intention to hunt it until later in the season when the amount was scarffed down to a legal amount. If those were the facts, I'd vote to acquit in a heartbeat.

Update: Found the statute, its RCW 9A.08.010 and defined all types of criminal mental states

[Cheif]

It I get pinched, expect a phone call!!! 

[jackelope]

So let’s say you dump 40 gallons of apples a day all through summer, then sept 1 comes along and you change it up to 5 gallons a day and suddenly a tree stand appears in the maple tree over the Apple pile... does that constitute intent?

[Bango skank]

So let’s say you dump 40 gallons of apples a day all through summer, then sept 1 comes along and you change it up to 5 gallons a day and suddenly a tree stand appears in the maple tree over the Apple pile... does that constitute intent?

Id say so.  Youre habituating the animals to large quantities of bait, then hunting them there.  Those 40 gallons a day were for the purpose of hunting at that point.  Nobody could argue otherwise and actually believe themselves.

[grundy53]

I've never actually hunted over the any of the minerals I've put out for my trail cameras. 🤷‍♂️

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[hunter399]

So let’s say you dump 40 gallons of apples a day all through summer, then sept 1 comes along and you change it up to 5 gallons a day and suddenly a tree stand appears in the maple tree over the Apple pile... does that constitute intent?

If you don't buy a licence until Sept 1 the intent to hunt before hand might be hard to prove and also proves you had no intent till Sept 1.But sadly most of us on here already bought it.

But with some wardens they just write tickets,and try to add some proof to the case.
Pety laws like this one more than likely your gonna talk to prosecutor drop charges with a small fine.Like most wildlife law slap on pp.

[OutHouse]

So let’s say you dump 40 gallons of apples a day all through summer, then sept 1 comes along and you change it up to 5 gallons a day and suddenly a tree stand appears in the maple tree over the Apple pile... does that constitute intent?

Now it gets a little gray. I would say there could be a problem because there is intent to hunt generally, but that intent is for a future time. If no intent at the time the bate is put down, perhaps no violation. I would argue that intent must be assessed at the time the violation is alleged. But more importantly the statute clearly says that it is unlawful to hunt....so first thing they have to prove is that you were hunting.

Like another said, if you have no license, and no present means to hunt, then the first element of hunting cannot be established. However, it is my understanding that the definition of hunting is very broad so that should be looked at for guidance.

[Jimmer]

Still amazing to me how they allow baiting ungulates, but not predators... way to go

[Lucky1]

Still amazing to me how they allow baiting ungulates, but not predators... way to go

I think it is legal to bait coyotes.

[bearpaw]

Still amazing to me how they allow baiting ungulates, but not predators... way to go

I'm pretty sure that bear, upland birds, waterfowl, and turkey are the only species you can't bait in WA?

I'm pretty sure you can bait bobcat, cougar, coyote, and fox.

[Pegasus]

So if I put out ten gallons of peanut butter, molasses, jelly donuts and candies and spray it with anise oil and vanilla extract for attracting deer and elk, can I shoot a bear over the bait if he happens to come calling?

[Jimmer]

Still amazing to me how they allow baiting ungulates, but not predators... way to go

I'm pretty sure that bear, upland birds, waterfowl, and turkey are the only species you can't bait in WA?

I'm pretty sure you can bait bobcat, cougar, coyote, and fox.

My bad.. I didn’t think you could bait cats as well.

[dilleytech]

So if I put out ten gallons of peanut butter, molasses, jelly donuts and candies and spray it with anise oil and vanilla extract for attracting deer and elk, can I shoot a bear over the bait if he happens to come calling?

No. Further more if your hunting deer over apples or anything that’s accidentally attracting bears. They could charge you with bear baiting just for having a bear tag in your pocket.