Got a response from the WDFW concerning CWP

[bowhuntin]

This isn't more gun control... it's less. Before archery and mz hunters were not allowed to carry... now they are, don't see that as more control. It's a return to what's right.

To take this one step further... why shouldn't a guy with a bow tag not be allowed to carry a rifle? After all, it is also bear season... so why should we restrict their access to a .300 Win Mag?

Would it make more sense to everyone if the WDFW would havve worded it this way:

Archery and Muzzleloader hunters shall not have on their person, or immediate access to a firearm. If you have a CPL, we can do nothing about it because of constitutional rights... and the state permit which supercedes our authority... so you can carry, eventhough we'd prefer you didn't.

It is still gun control, but gives the archer an avenue to legally carry now.

As stated in the Washington State constitution, SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

If an individual doesn't have a CPL and they are carrying then they are now a criminal. Requiring someone to get a permit to carry a handgun is GUN CONTROL plain and simple. Why should a law abiding hunter/citizen need a go ahead from the government to carry concealed or open carry when it states in our own states constitution and the U.S. constitution that we have the right to bear arms. I know those that intend to pray on you sure don't care if the government is going to tell them they have to jump through a hoop to do what they want, they will go ahead and do it anyways.

[Kain]

How is the new rule any different than the last rule.  If you were forced to give up your rights to carry by buying an archery or MZL tag you did the same thing last year.  How did the CPL give you more rights to carry while hunting than a person without one, when a CPL is not required?

The rules of the WDFW cannot override the laws of the state of WA... under such law and as a CPL holder, they cannot restrict my access to a pistol. As the previous WDFW rule was written... it was in conflict with this right. As a non-CPL holder... you are subject to the "lawful outdoor activity" clause in order to carry a pistol. The WDFW gets to decide what's lawful and what's not in regards to hunting and fishing... so, they dicide it isn't lawful to carry a pistol while hunting with a bow or mz... and the state is bound to honor that in regard to the carrying of a pistol. The converse however, is not true. Because I have been granted the right to carry a pistol at all times by the STATE, through the process they require... that rule does not apply to me... therefore the WDFW cannot make it unlawful for me to be in posession of a pistol concealed or open.

The very act of carrying a pistol durring archery or mz season is unlawfull... thereby exempting you from the "lawfull outdoor activity" exception to the CC laws... which means no CPL... no pistola. This is why the change was made and worded the way it is.

So what your saying is that the WDFW can restrict my access to a pistol?  "The rules of the WDFW cannot override the laws of the state of WA"  The laws of the state grant us the right to carry openly(without a CPL)...and the laws of the state exempt me from needing a CPL while hunting.  How can you say they cant override the law and then say they can?  

According to you they could put any kind of restriction or requirement on buying a licenses to make it a legal activity.  The could require a four year degree or a million dollar home to be able buy a tag regardless if it is a law or not.  <---ridiculous to the extreme I know but the point stands

[JoshT]

It's kind of a chicken before the egg scenario. What I'm saying is... if you're relying on the "legal outdoor activity" clause to allow you access to a pistol... then what's defined as legal is out of your control... in this case... carrying a pistol while hunting with a bow without a CPL is illegal, therefore... you can't carry one and say you're participating in a "legal outdoor activity". The WDFW does not get the option to define that as illegal to those who have applied for, and received a CPL. So, they had to word the change the way they did. Any restriction to the rights of the CPL holder would have to go through the State Congress... so WDFW had to defer to the CPL holder on this law.

bowhuntin ... I agree with you 100%. There should be no restrictions on the gun rights of law abiding citizens... period. What I meant by this is less not more was, this gives the right to carry back to the lawfull CPL holder... within the already established gun control bull schitt, rather than place further restrictions upon them... as was the case for years past.

[Kain]

It's kind of a chicken before the egg scenario. What I'm saying is... if you're relying on the "legal outdoor activity" clause to allow you access to a pistol... then what's defined as legal is out of your control... in this case... carrying a pistol while hunting with a bow without a CPL is illegal, therefore... you can't carry one and say you're participating in a "legal outdoor activity". The WDFW does not get the option to define that as illegal to those who have applied for, and received a CPL. So, they had to word the change the way they did. Any restriction to the rights of the CPL holder would have to go through the State Congress... so WDFW had to defer to the CPL holder on this law.

bowhuntin ... I agree with you 100%. There should be no restrictions on the gun rights of law abiding citizens... period. What I meant by this is less not more was, this gives the right to carry back to the lawfull CPL holder... within the already established gun control bull schitt, rather than place further restrictions upon them... as was the case for years past.

The WDFW does not get the option to define that is illegal to carry a pistol to any citizen. 

As stated in the Washington State constitution, SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired

"carrying a pistol while hunting with a bow without a CPL is illegal, therefore... you can't carry one and say you're participating in a "legal outdoor activity"."

It is illegal because they made it illegal which according to you they have not the right.

[JoshT]

You're placing the restriction upon yourself by agreeing to hunt with a bow or ML, and give up your access to a firearm... the WDFW just enforces those restrictions. Your purchasing of the tag enters you into that agreement... if you don't like it... buy a rifle tag. In fact... they were violating this before... they're not now. They aren't imparing your rights... they're granting them in this case.

[Kain]

You're placing the restriction upon yourself by agreeing to hunt with a bow or ML, and give up your access to a firearm... the WDFW just enforces those restrictions. Your purchasing of the tag enters you into that agreement... if you don't like it... buy a rifle tag. In fact... they were violating this before... they're not now. They aren't imparing your rights... they're granting them in this case.

It is illegal because they made it illegal which according to you they have not the right.  This argument does not stand because you said they had to change the rule because it contradicted the law.  The new one contradicts the law.

Citizens of Washington are allowed to bear arm for protection.  They need a CPL to carry concealed.  The are exempt from needing a CPL while hunting. 
WDFW has no authority to limit these rights in any way because they are state law.  That is why they had to allow archery and MZL hunters to carry in the first place.  They were told by the AG that the current law would not stand up in court and added the CPL requirement last minute without any regard to the legality.

[JoshT]

They didn't make it illegal... you did by agreeing to it.

[Kain]

They didn't make it illegal... you did by agreeing to it.

Then why did the allow us to carry at all?  Because the law allows us to and they cannot make rule that change that.

[JoshT]

Tell you what... go ahead and strap on your 6-shooter while you're hunting with your bow... walk up to the nearest game warden and let him know what you think... get the ticket... take it to court... and let us all know how it works out.

OR...

get a f#$%ing CPL!

OR...

buy a f#$%ing rifle tag and not worry about it


I'm following Machias... I'm out....

[jackelope]

locked...dead thread.

[billythekidrock]

I did not lock this so I will not unlock it, but I feel that I need to respond.

I was at the meeting and commission member Perry questioned the addition of the CWP requirement.

Dave Ware's response was that it was a "request" from Enforcement as well as at the Legislative level.

This is not a "F&W" pushed rule. This is strong arm tactics traight from Enforcement and the Capitol.