Idaho non resident tag quotas for 2021

[Karl Blanchard]

Or they all graduated from U of I and can't add or subtract

[idaho guy]

When they did the zone limits its was based on limiting percent of non-res in per unit, they didn't take the step of allocating portions of overall nr tags so they won't use all the overall quota until second tag or second chance draw.  They will likely tweak it next year so total of all units equals overall quota.

Sure, I buy this, but in their press release they give you a target of a reduction in "over 600 elk tags sold to nonresidents in general elk hunts based on current participation rates,".
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/fg-commission-approves-changes-nonresident-participation-general-season-deer-and-elk-hunts

12,815 previous total - 11,724 total zone caps = 1,091 tags reduced. 

So, sure, they're not technically wrong, but they probably should've said "over 1,000 elk tags" if they were trying to portray it accurately.  Or if they want to talk general elk hunts and controlled elk hunts separately, they could've said "over 1,000 elk tags total, with 600 in general units and 400 in controlled units"

Its not like they didn't know... they set the quotas and made the rules.  They knew what the specific number was in general units, but left it vague. 

Why did they choose to be unspecific?

If I could bet my elk tag, I would bet my tag on the idea that they're going to make all of the "extra" NR quota available to residents at the NR price.

Also, I fail to understand why me being bothered by this bothers people so much?  I did write them, I'm just not willing to sit in their phone tree.  There are specific numbers here and they're either dumb or being intentionally vague about it, neither is really acceptable.

 

The death of Idaho and Montana in my opinion will be people moving in from other states and immediately deciding those state “aren’t doing things right”. I have no problem with people moving wherever they want. You made some pretty good posts about how much you loved Idaho freely buying guns a taking a wolf trapping class. Now you are accusing the same fish and game who has allowed us to hunt and trap wolves run etc etc of some conspiracy to save non resident tags to sell to residents. That move to sell extra tags to residents was super controversial when they originally did it.A lot of residents were against it. It was only because they weren’t selling out post wolves and pre wolf hunting and trapping seasons. WHY? Why are you doing all this speculation? What is the point? It’s pretty easy to call fish and game or even just go walk in there. It took me 1 minute to find 300 tags on the idfg site that they were being “vague “ about. I don’t have time to research it anymore and it doesn’t effect me or you. If it took 1 minute to find 300 it probably be easy to find them all. I’m not saying your intention is to immediately change things but many people move here because they claim to love it and immediately get busy “fixing” things. I don’t know you so hopefully it’s not your attitude but I don’t understand why you have spent this much time imagining a conspiracy or accusing them of not understanding math. I picked up a replacement lion tag last week no line no wait had my tag in 10 minutes. Go in there and ask them.

[idaho guy]

Or they all graduated from U of I and can't add or subtract

We might have a winner 😂

[luvmystang67]

[/quote] 

The death of Idaho and Montana in my opinion will be people moving in from other states and immediately deciding those state “aren’t doing things right”. I have no problem with people moving wherever they want. You made some pretty good posts about how much you loved Idaho freely buying guns a taking a wolf trapping class. Now you are accusing the same fish and game who has allowed us to hunt and trap wolves run etc etc of some conspiracy to save non resident tags to sell to residents. That move to sell extra tags to residents was super controversial when they originally did it.A lot of residents were against it. It was only because they weren’t selling out post wolves and pre wolf hunting and trapping seasons. WHY? Why are you doing all this speculation? What is the point? It’s pretty easy to call fish and game or even just go walk in there. It took me 1 minute to find 300 tags on the idfg site that they were being “vague “ about. I don’t have time to research it anymore and it doesn’t effect me or you. If it took 1 minute to find 300 it probably be easy to find them all. I’m not saying your intention is to immediately change things but many people move here because they claim to love it and immediately get busy “fixing” things. I don’t know you so hopefully it’s not your attitude but I don’t understand why you have spent this much time imagining a conspiracy or accusing them of not understanding math. I picked up a replacement lion tag last week no line no wait had my tag in 10 minutes. Go in there and ask them.
[/quote]

If you're worried about me changing Idaho, you've got a rude awakening coming from everyone else.  I'm not even asking for change, I just get a weird twitch when math doesn't work.

The magic 300 you've found... where does that fit?  It hasn't solved anything...

Is it included in the 12,815 total?  Does that mean there are 13,115, 12,815 or 12,515 for other NR?

Are those 300 included in the 11,724 zone quota or not? 

Whatever conclusion you've drawn from "finding the missing 300" doesn't really answer any question I have posed as there's no data for which portion it applies to. 

I'm not alleging some massive conspiracy, just wondering what they're doing and what all these bizarre numbers mean.  I'm not even trying to change anything, I just want to know what the h*ll they're trying to tell us with all these numbers that don't tie.  If you're this upset about me asking questions about why math doesn't add, the Dems who are pushing real change are going to give you a heart attack.

I'm not trying to make you an enemy, but you should probably check yourself if you think I'm the one you have to worry about.

[idaho guy]

My understanding is the 300 would be included in your top line number but not count against the limits in the units.  I know for a fact it doesn’t count against the limits in the units. You are trying to fix a problem that most likely doesn’t exist. Why ? If you have a math twitch go ask them. You suggested twice they were most likely saving them for residents to buy as second tags. At this point I have no issues with you I just don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish other than “fix” a problem that I am guessing doesn’t exist. You wrote them a letter why not wait for the answer before fixing the perceived problem

[Karl Blanchard]

Residents buying tags as seconds is missing out on $185 big game license sale. That definitely isn't their intention

[luvmystang67]

Got some partial answers here for the very select few who are interested.

The capped zones create an effective cap below the NR elk quota.  There are essentially two IDFG rules here, total NR tags for say elk cannot exceed 12,815 statewide, but they are also limited by elk zone.  The summed elk zones equal 11,724, effectively indicating that the difference in tags (1,091) will not (double checking on this) be sold.

With 11,724 being the new zone caps, 300 of these are DAV tags and 2,800 are outfitter tags.  Also, there's no official cap on youth tags, so they're also removed from the 11,724 at an unknown number.  This indicates that there are actually 8,624 or fewer tags made available to standard NR OTC adults.  It will be lessened by however many youth bought tags before the area quotas expired.

I'm getting a little further clarification on what happens for returned outfitter tags, and if filling of all units means that youth is effectively capped.  My follow ups have to do with:

1) Are outfitter tags only offered for the units they were originally offered for (I speculate so)?
2) Are youth tags over if the remaining 80 tags in quota areas are sold (I also think so)?
3) Does this mean that 1,091 licenses will not be sold at all in 2021 (sounds like it)?

Will come back when I have more... interesting way of doing things.  Bet you all didn't know you were competing with youths for those units!  It'll be interesting to see how this evolves over the next several years.

[luvmystang67]

I got a few more clarifications.

1) I does not seem like they know exactly how they're going to handle leftover licenses yet, but they're tending toward maintaining all caps and limits, even if they end up offering them to sale to residents.  Any unsold tags as of 8/1 will likely be offered to residents at the NR price and at the NR unit quotas.

2) There's a language difference between CAPS and LIMITS.  Zones like Lolo are Capped, zones like Panhandle are Limited.  Capped zones include outfitter tags, DAV tags and youth tags in their Cap total capacity (meaning those tag types reduce standard adult NR tags in those areas).  Limited zones (the new ones for 2021) do include outfitter tags, but do not include DAV and Youth tags.  In the new limited zones, DAV and Youth tags do not reduce the standard adult NR tags, but outfitter tags do

3) It sounds like outfitter tags that are returned will be reoffered in the areas they were originally available to outfitters in, so there will effectively be no general elk tags available when returned tags come back.

4) To reiterate from my previous post, the total NR tags sold have been cut quite a bit and outfitter tags have been increased by 400 for elk.  Total NR cuts are closer to 10% than 5%.

Now you know.

[pd]

A couple of comments.

(1) You guys need to get along.  From what I can tell, you (you all, plural 2nd person) are stand up folk, and should be friends, not adversaries.

(2) The availability (potential) for unused outfitter tags to non-residents in 2021 is confusing.  Make it simple for me, please.  Will this happen in August like in normal years?  yes/no

[jjhunter]

I am going to try to listen in tomorrow during the season setting.  Curious to see final tag numbers.

[luvmystang67]

A couple of comments.

(1) You guys need to get along.  From what I can tell, you (you all, plural 2nd person) are stand up folk, and should be friends, not adversaries.

(2) The availability (potential) for unused outfitter tags to non-residents in 2021 is confusing.  Make it simple for me, please.  Will this happen in August like in normal years?  yes/no

Sounds like this should happen (returned tag sale), but due to the new limits you'll only get an opportunity to buy returned outfitter tags in the zone that the outfitter had them for.  In the past, there were always some general units and general tags available, so you had some choices.  Now, if you want a Lolo tag, but only a panhandle outfitter returns tags, you'll only have panhandle as an option.  Sounds like they haven't COMPLETELY ironed that out yet, but thats the direction. 

[nwmein199]

Going to be less non-resident tags available in the future unless you pay up for a guide. Get your opinion in now.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags


Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.

Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.

The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.

[idahohuntr]

Going to be less non-resident tags available in the future unless you pay up for a guide. Get your opinion in now.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags


Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.

Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.

The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.

And the biggest impact will be to NR Deer tag availability.  Especially in the higher demand units where guides will take an even larger share. 

[trophyhunt]

Going to be less non-resident tags available in the future unless you pay up for a guide. Get your opinion in now.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags


Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.

Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.

The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.

Done!  You should start a new thread with this link and a title to let people know. Thanks

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

  Done.