Reloading Supplies

[GWP]

Sooooo, looking at my 'usual' reloading sites, I see '0' primers, '0' powder, '0' 22LR, '0' for a lot of things. On the other hand, I see a lot of grousing about 'Fair Prices', 'Price Gouging', 'paying more than it is worth', on and on about what people are having to pay for what they can find, on this site and other forums.
Just what exactly is fair price? Or 'what it is worth'?
I would think it is what the market will bear? Isn't that how capitalism works? If you want it, buy it. If think it is too much, don't buy it.
There have been a few people doing 'want to buy' on here that while I have the item they want and would sell it, I hesitate because of comments in the ad. Why would I sell to them if they are already complaining about how much the item is before we even discuss price?
What exactly is 'fair price'?

[Rainier10]

A fair price is what someone is willing to pay for it.

People would love to buy primers for $.04 each but they aren’t available at stores. If some one has a bunch they don’t want to sell them not knowing when they will be able to restock. Some decide to part with some for $.10 a primer. If someone needs them and pays so be it.


I have a 68 camaro that I paid $3,000 for in highschool. I’m not going to sell it to someone because they used to have one and want to pay what I paid for it. It’s mine. If someone wants to pay me $30,000 for it I would consider it. I personally wouldn’t pay $30,000 for it now and most others wouldn’t either but that’s not to say that some guy who really wants one wouldn’t pay that for it.

[Magnum_Willys]

I wish retailers would start raising prices to market levels not msrp.  The hoarding would stop, ammo would be available and prices would fall.

Right now powder hits the internet at $35# and is gone in 5 mins.  Offer it at $100# and make more money, let those who need it that bad get it, shortage over, prices fall.

[Rainier10]

Just saw this in one of the classifieds and think it is spot on.

I don’t mind paying more than it’s worth because I can’t find it anywhere. I’m located in Vancouver Washington and willing to drive an hour or so to get it. Thanks for looking and happy hunting.

[GWP]

There is that wording again. "More than it is worth".
To who? Who decides that? I have yet to see or hear of anyone that does not want to sell their house for more than what they paid for it, or anything else for that matter.
As in the example of the car, I have owned soooo many 'classic' cars, that if I had them now, quite a few would worth a bundle.
I was also invited to a demonstration and offered MS stock before the first offering. I could not see the use of the computers at the time... Oops. Yup. I am old... I have not had anyone offer it to me at the same price I could have gotten it for back then. Big surprise.
I have some friends that say that crap all the time, and yes, it bugs me. They want premium for their stuff, but think I should 'give' mine to them. Or sell it for what THEY determine is 'what it is worth'. Which is ALWAYS less than the market value.

[Bowhunter3]

What do you have for sale? Looking for something?

[Come Get Some]

Easy to avoid all of this. The good old fashioned barter system. Offer trades. My wife traded bee hives for ammo. Guys were glad to do so. Maybe we should all start a site offering to trade back and forth amongst ourselves. If the retailers or the price gougers didn't have a market the availability and price could be different

[M_ray]

Easy to avoid all of this. The good old fashioned barter system. Offer trades. My wife traded bee hives for ammo. Guys were glad to do so. Maybe we should all start a site offering to trade back and forth amongst ourselves. If the retailers or the price gougers didn't have a market the availability and price could be different

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,255485.0.html

[carpsniperg2]

I moved this to a different area as I think its a conversation topic not a for sale ad.

I think a fair price is what ever a guy wants to crack his wallet out for.
No one has to pay it, its not something they need something they want. Survival is not counting on it.

Like for me. I have been helping out many guys and guys have helped me out on here. I am selling for what I paid or a little but more.
Thats the type of people I like to do business with. If I feel I really want something I will pay more but that is my choice. I have bought stuff for more then I would have liked to the last few months, however I decided it was worth it to me and paid up.

[GWP]

Thanks for moving it. I had figured since that is where the loading supplies are it 'might' be a good place for it. That said, I have sold a few things to Buddies, and am not sure how much more I will pare down. I certainly don't want to sell 'too much' and have to re supply.
I have slowed down in the last few years on hunting and reloading for sure. The days of 600 rounds a week (handgun alone) will probably not happen again.

[HighlandLofts]

I don't know what the big pucture is behind the scenes on these shortages is, but i'm not buying in yo the gougers and hoarders buying everything up.

Every retail store I talked to are only getting a case of this, a case of that or nothing at all where before they got what ever they ordered.

So tell me where all of this suposedly merchandise is going to be bought up?.

People say there are millions of new shooters, they may be buying guns (what's left anyways). But they ate not buying any ammo or reloading supplies because they are unavailable at the retail stores and will not be at the retail stores for a long time.

They can not sell what the wholesellers will not sell to them.


It's not like there is hundeds & hundreds of new gun stores popping up around the country and they are getting all of the new stock.
Nobody is getting nothing.

My question is WHERE IS IT?

[GWP]

There is that CCI vid where he basically states the majority is going 'in house' now because of demand for ammo. Maybe? I guess?
I saw another blurb from someone at Hodgdon stating the military had changed powders and production went to that until they are caught up.
Maybe? I guess?
Not sure when it will get better.

[bearhunter99]

I don't know what the big pucture is behind the scenes on these shortages is, but i'm not buying in yo the gougers and hoarders buying everything up.

Every retail store I talked to are only getting a case of this, a case of that or nothing at all where before they got what ever they ordered.

So tell me where all of this suposedly merchandise is going to be bought up?.

People say there are millions of new shooters, they may be buying guns (what's left anyways). But they ate not buying any ammo or reloading supplies because they are unavailable at the retail stores and will not be at the retail stores for a long time.

They can not sell what the wholesellers will not sell to them.


It's not like there is hundeds & hundreds of new gun stores popping up around the country and they are getting all of the new stock.
Nobody is getting nothing.

My question is WHERE IS IT?

One thing to remember in all this is that production rates are not nearly what they once were.  COVID restrictions have affected manufacturing across the board and some of the early shut downs put the manufacturing of some items so far into backorder status that it could take years to recover.  I don't wont to derail this thread politically but the unnecessary COVID shutdowns will have a trickle down affect for years to come on some industries.

[Fl0und3rz]

I don't know what the big pucture is behind the scenes on these shortages is, but i'm not buying in yo the gougers and hoarders buying everything up.

Every retail store I talked to are only getting a case of this, a case of that or nothing at all where before they got what ever they ordered.

So tell me where all of this suposedly merchandise is going to be bought up?.

People say there are millions of new shooters, they may be buying guns (what's left anyways). But they ate not buying any ammo or reloading supplies because they are unavailable at the retail stores and will not be at the retail stores for a long time.

They can not sell what the wholesellers will not sell to them.


It's not like there is hundeds & hundreds of new gun stores popping up around the country and they are getting all of the new stock.
Nobody is getting nothing.

My question is WHERE IS IT?

What caused it?

The simple explanation is that demand exceeded the supply, then continued to exceed the supply. But to understand how that happened you have to go a little deeper. According to Jason Vanderbrink, President of Federal, CCI, Speer and Remington, before the COVID-19 pandemic, there was considerable excess capacity in the ammunition market.

Manufacturers could make more than they could sell, so supply was abundant and prices were low. You could order a case of 9 mm off the Internet for $200. Manufacturers were prepared for an uptick in sales that normally accompanies a presidential election, but the excess capacity would have been enough to cover that.

2020 had other ideas. The first was the COVID-19 pandemic. Then a summer of civil unrest that sometimes turned violent. A hotly contested presidential election, and then the party of gun control having control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency.

Any single one of those would have spiked demand, but all these factors happening in rapid succession was more than the market could bear. Partly because the NSSF estimates that 7 million new gun owners entered the market in 2020. As Vanderbrink pointed out, if those 7 million new gun owners each bought 100 rounds of ammo, that's 700 million rounds that the market needs to produce.

To put that in context, the entire commercial market in 2018 made approximately 8 billion rounds. An 8.75 increase in demand wouldn't shut everything down, but when it's added on top of the demand created by all the other factors, it becomes too much.

   
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2021/2/5/the-truth-behind-the-great-ammo-crisis

Read the entire article.  It is no grand conspiracy or secret cabal of government and manufacturers.  Save your money now.  Buy when prices are low.  When people were hoarding TP in early 2020, factory 5.56 NATO was still 35-45 cents/round.  Help your buddies out, if you can afford it.  Gougers will be remembered when and if fat times return.