Muzzleloader Regs change/concealed weapon

[bobcat]

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/big_game/regulations/firearm.pdf

[Kain]

I will try to redirect to the original point. Last years regs said "It is illegal to carry or possess any firearm during muzzleloading season which does not meet the following specification for a muzzleloader". Clearly you can't carry a modern pistol but later it says you can carry a black powder pistol.

That was removed and it now reads "In addition to the above requirements, it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading
hunting season using a firearm which does not meet the following specifications for a muzzleloader."

They removed "carry or possess" and replaced them with "participate (hunt)". If they intended a cpl as the only legal method to carry a modern handgun they would have clarified the issue with the word "must".

That is a pistol in my pocket and I am happy to see you.

Are you asking if it Ok to have in your "possession" a rifle as long as you were not "using it" to hunt?  Im just not understanding your statement.  

[Kain]

I just think there has been precident about the WDFW having rules that overwrite RCW's.  Previously we were not allowed to possess a modern firearm pistol while ML hunting.......concealed or not.  They are really not changing anything except allowing those people with CPL's to carry.  I'm not arguing that the WDFW made the correct decision, I'm just saying that they are not changing their long standing position very much.  (I think it is stupid to require a CPL for open carry.)  I don't like the fact that the WDFW assumes someone with a handgun is a poacher unless they have a CPL.

They may just go back to the way it was (not allow anyone to carry a pistol) if they get a bunch of heat over the new change.  I'm glad you guys are fighting it........I just hope it works out and doesn't backfire.

I had heard that they made the concession because they were told by the Attorney General that they would loose a legal case over it in the first place.  I dont know if that is true but it seems likely with how the constitution is worded.  If this is the case then we have little to fear about it backfiring.

[Smoke Pole]

Are you asking if it Ok to have in your "possession" a rifle as long as you were not "using it" to hunt?  Im just not understanding your statement.  
[/quote]

Actually, I was only trying to make the point that verbiage prohibiting carrying anything but muzzleloaders or black powder was removed and not replaced with any other prohibitions. You make a good point about modern long guns. I don't see anything saying they can't be in one's possession so long as one is not hunting with it.


Here's another interesting thought to wrestle with. Let's say an off duty sheriff's deputy required to carry a personal firearm by department policy but not required to possess a cpl by virtue of RCW  9.41.060 is out hunting during muzzleloader season. Will he be ticketed? Your authority to carry a concealed handgun is written in the same law eight sentences down from his.
 It gets curiouser and curiouser.

[bobcat]

I'll just keep my handgun concealed when the warden checks my tags and license. No need to worry about how he would interpret the law.   

[Curly]

Ok, after 4 pages, I think I understand where CP, Smokepole, and Clay were talking about.  Even though I had it figured out on page 1, but then no one said the example I gave was what they were referring too......

Anway, because they changed the wording that used to say you can't carry anything but a muzzleloader, you say that you should be able to carry a modern rifle or shotgun during ML season as long as you are not hunting with one.  (The pistol issue is separate, it specifically says you can only carry one if you have a CPL.) 

Good luck convincing a warden that you just have the 30-06 stapped around your neck in case you see a meth-head that you need protection from.  You will go to court.......maybe with a really good lawyer you can get out of a ticket, but why would you want to pay a lawyer a bunch of money? 

Somewhere on this board someone wrote about when he had asked a Wildlife agent about if it would be okay for him to hunt with a ML for elk while his buddy came with him with a modern rifle and a bear tag.  The warden told him no.........they would have to hunt separately.  Can you believe that?  That is b.s.  They are both legally doing an activity, it just so happens that they would drive there together and maybe hunt together or partially together, but the warden would write them up.  Makes no sense.

You should be able to have in your possession a modern firearm as long as you don't shoot your animal that you have your ML tag for.  But the warden would have already convicted  you and the courts likely would not be on your side either.  Doesn't matter what the wording of the pamphlet says......the warden will have his mind made up.

Another thing, where the pamphlet says "it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading hunting season using a firearm which does not meet........"  the WDFW will likely say that by being out in the woods actively pursuing game, that you are in fact "hunting" with that firearm.  Even though you don't intend to shoot the animal that you have a ML tag for with that firearm, they will say otherwise and you're screwed.

[jackelope]

i think a portion of this can be tracked back to the archery only lion season we now have too eliminating "i'm cougar hunting" as an excuse for having the aught 6 strapped around your neck.

[Kain]

i think a portion of this can be tracked back to the archery only lion season we now have too eliminating "i'm cougar hunting" as an excuse for having the aught 6 strapped around your neck.

The sad part is that people dont need to have a reason at all to have a gun with them.  They could just tell the officer they are target shooting or carrying for protection.  They are perfectly legal until they actually shoot something.  So they will just keep adding restrictions on hunters of all groups and it wont do any good.