Accessing public land from a non-county-maintained road

[smithkl42]

I've got a question, not sure if this is the best forum for it, but I'm curious what other folks have to say.

My buddy and I have found a reasonable westside spot, on public state land, with (so far as we can tell) better deer numbers than other westside places I've been scouting or hunting.

There are two ways to access it.

One is off of a public road, but a sign at the gate says "No parking". If we were to park there nevertheless (or near there) and hike in, it would add an additional 3 or so miles to the day. Not huge, but not nothing either.

A second way is off of a dirt road goes through several 5-10 acre parcels of private property before it gets to the gate. There aren't any "no trespassing signs" on the road, nor is it marked as a "private road". There *is* a sign partway up the road that says "End of County Maintained Road". Once you get to the gate, there's a 10-15 foot strip of public land you can park on (and which doesn't block the gate).

We parked at the second location once, and while on the public land met a local (but not one of the property owners near the road) who told us (politely enough) that we weren't supposed to park there - though she acknowledged there wasn't any signage, and that we were in fact actually parked on public land. (She said where we were supposed to park is at the place that says "No Parking".)

So ... what would you guys do? Does a sign that says "End of County Maintained Road" actually mean "If you don't live here stay out"? Is there any way of finding out whether there's a public easement on that road? I absolutely want to respect other folks' private property rights, but I'm not sure what those rights are. I could knock on doors and get explicit permission (or have the permission explicitly denied), but do I need to knock on every door along the road? Or...?

At any rate, curious what other folks' take is.

[Zag11]

To me that only means that the county literally doesn’t maintain it past that point, but it is still a county road. I think you’d be fine continuing past that sign. In my experience, when a road is private, it’s well marked. Ive wondered the same about roads that seemed private, but after looking at county GIS maps (found on any county website) are actually logging co. owned or county roads that are just traveling thru private. Hope that helps and someone correct me if wrong.

[Zag11]

I would add that I once asked a sheriffs deputy about the legality of parking off a road or highway. He said on highways, as long as you are not inside the white line you are good (unless it says no parking on shoulder). On gravel or non-lined roads, you have to be off far enough where 2 cars could pass without having your rig be an inconvenience. That was the answer I got so take that however you want for your situation.

[Mfowl]

Can you park in the allowed area and use legal 2 wheel transportation to get to the second gate? If you stash your bike well once you hit public you might not even get noticed.

[Stein]

In this state, the landowner is under no obligation to post their land, it's up to you to stay off it.

This is a common challenge, is this road public or not?  I would start with a call or e-mail to the county, most rural counties don't have great mapping or websites although you might luck out.

If it's private, you can't drive it without permission, same goes for parking or walking across their property to public.

If it's public and you can legally park, go for it.

In short, you have more homework to do before you know whether it's legal or not.

[Buckhunter24]

First thing I would do is search for survey/easement records on the county site. The dnr has all the county survey records on their site as well if the county site is clunky. But the dnr site is a bit clunky too so I'd try county first.

[jrebel]

Call a title company and ask about said private property and any public easement.  Start with the private property closest to the known county road.  If there is easement….it will be part of that properties title documents.   Just tell them you are looking at purchasing a piece in the area that the easement may benefit said property and most title companies will find the info for you. 

[Scruffy]

I live on a dirt road and there is a sign that says End of County Maintained Rd.  The road is actually private and belongs to the home owners assn. further past my place.  They maintain it not the county and it is not up to county code.  You could try looking on the County Assessor's page at the SCOPI maps, it shows private parcels.
https://snohomishcountywa.gov/5414/Interactive-Map-SCOPI

[JeepWrangler]

I'm the kind of guy who would call or stop by and visit with the owners of the 5-10 acre parcels you referred to and ask for permission to park on their land so I could walk up to the gate you want to go through to hunt.

Yeah, some people may say 'no'

Dial the next phone number.

Some people will say 'yes'

It's a numbers game.

May take a few 'no's' to get to a 'yes'

There are still nice decent humans out there who will be friendly and say yes to hunters.

They just don't wear a sign saying 'call me I'm friendly to hunters and would like to help'.

Go talk to some strangers and make a new friend.

It's worth it.

~ Wishing You Good Hunting

[buckcanyonlodge]

The county may have vacated that road.Just because there is an old sign does not mean it is still a county road. Like jrebel said local title co. could tell if there is a public easement through the private land. Go to the assessors website and find the which parcels the road goes through. It will list the owners name and mailing address. I know a couple "roads" like you describe and there are no public easements on the ones I know of. Good luck with your search. Also, if you are using one of the hunt maps on your phone they are not exact. The property lines may be off . I walked a just surveyed property and one corner was exact on my onX hunt map then the south line was 25 feet off of the surveyed line.

[JeepWrangler]

* quick follow up to my previous post *

I am not recommending any courses but I also know not everyone is comfortable with talking to strangers about private land access nor what types of written agreements and / or liability insurance you may want to consider and/or why that may be a good thing.

There is a course online that does have word for word scripts and templates for permission forms and considerations for liability insurance.

I do not endorse nor am I paid to promote them.

'Seek One + Hunt Urban Masterclass'

Sometimes having scripts and templates is helpful.

Best Wishes for your Hunting Adventures!

[Doublelunger]

Public roads on Onx usually show up inside of two red lines like this. If it's a public road I'd say you can pretty much park wherever you want as long as you're not in the way.

[haftard]

i would take my kids and or wife with me and go knock on doors one week end. i would ask only for access and a parking spot. if they have a dog make sure they are ok with coming and parking early in the morning. but it sounds like you should be able to park at the gate.

[NW SURVEYOR]

TARD,
All the above is good advice, follow it.
Also read RCW 36.86.010 which stipulates the width of a public R/W after 1937 as being 60 feet.
Good luck.
Also, the DNR website is WEBEXTENDER.
Happy New Years!!
Rob.

[buckcanyonlodge]

Here is the RCW....  From and after April 1, 1937, the width of thirty feet on each side of the center line of county roads, exclusive of such additional width as may be required for cuts and fills, is the necessary and proper right-of-way width for county roads, unless the board of county commissioners, shall, in any instance, adopt and designate a different width. This shall not be construed to require the acquisition of increased right-of-way for any county road already established and the right-of-way for which has been secured.

So, the county commissioners could have adopted a different width and if the road was there and only had a 30 ft. width they would not have to acquire additional property to make it 60 ft..

I know a great easement lawyer up in Colville if.......   Good Luck in your search.

[OutHouse]

The title company comments should get you where you need to be. Give them all the parcels and ask if they can locate any easement documents. Another thing is easements can appear in deeds as well.

[Lumpy Taters]

Had a friend that lived on some property in a similar sounding scenario.   It all depends on who plotted the parcels and if they left any easements.  In his case it was old timber company land and they retained an easement for their access. People where using it for hunting access and the neighbors got it stopped.  Language is everything in legal documents.   While I hate to see any access route blocked.  Working with the land owners is always the best option
   
 

[Humptulips]

In this state, the landowner is under no obligation to post their land, it's up to you to stay off it.

That is not completely true. Read the bolded part.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.010

The following definitions apply in this chapter:
(1) "Enter." The word "enter" when constituting an element or part of a crime, shall include the entrance of the person, or the insertion of any part of his or her body, or any instrument or weapon held in his or her hand and used or intended to be used to threaten or intimidate a person or to detach or remove property.
(2) "Enters or remains unlawfully." A person "enters or remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when he or she is not then licensed, invited, or otherwise privileged to so enter or remain.
A license or privilege to enter or remain in a building which is only partly open to the public is not a license or privilege to enter or remain in that part of a building which is not open to the public. A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him or her by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Similarly, a field fenced in any manner is not unimproved and apparently unused land. A license or privilege to enter or remain on improved and apparently used land that is open to the public at particular times, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner to exclude intruders, is not a license or privilege to enter or remain on the land at other times if notice of prohibited times of entry is posted in a conspicuous manner.
(3) "Premises" includes any building, dwelling, structure used for commercial aquaculture, or any real property.

[Stein]

In this state, the landowner is under no obligation to post their land, it's up to you to stay off it.

That is not completely true. Read the bolded part.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.010

The following definitions apply in this chapter:
(1) "Enter." The word "enter" when constituting an element or part of a crime, shall include the entrance of the person, or the insertion of any part of his or her body, or any instrument or weapon held in his or her hand and used or intended to be used to threaten or intimidate a person or to detach or remove property.
(2) "Enters or remains unlawfully." A person "enters or remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when he or she is not then licensed, invited, or otherwise privileged to so enter or remain.
A license or privilege to enter or remain in a building which is only partly open to the public is not a license or privilege to enter or remain in that part of a building which is not open to the public. A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him or her by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Similarly, a field fenced in any manner is not unimproved and apparently unused land. A license or privilege to enter or remain on improved and apparently used land that is open to the public at particular times, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner to exclude intruders, is not a license or privilege to enter or remain on the land at other times if notice of prohibited times of entry is posted in a conspicuous manner.
(3) "Premises" includes any building, dwelling, structure used for commercial aquaculture, or any real property.

Thanks, must have my states mixed up.

[Lady Grouse hunter]

END OF COUNTY, maintained road means JUST that! The residence like us do fill gravel potholes, cut tree's off the road and drain any minor flooding.
Just Knock on doors and ask permission..

[GWP]

Had a friend that lived on some property in a similar sounding scenario.   It all depends on who plotted the parcels and if they left any easements.  In his case it was old timber company land and they retained an easement for their access. People where using it for hunting access and the neighbors got it stopped.  Language is everything in legal documents.   While I hate to see any access route blocked.  Working with the land owners is always the best option

Both of our properties have easements with different terms. On one we needed to get a 'land lawyer' to determine our rights to determine our rights on our own property after there was some abuse of the easement by 'non authorized easement access' folks and confrontations with them, including police visits.
It pretty much boiled down to them deciding they could use it and believing that the easement applied to everyone and they could do what they wanted. The stupid part is there is 'public' access two blocks away, but it became a 'thing' for them to force it. They were wrong.

[kball4]

End of county maintenance means the road is now a private easement or driveway.  An easement in WA is for the ingress and egress of land owners and there guests.

[HntnFsh]

Not so sure about that. At least around here I have seen these signs and the county road went past them. They just weren't maintained.

[Tball77]

If the county or city maintains any portion of the road you can park on it.  My personal experience was using OnX to access land in Okanogan county and parking on a road only to have a resident of the area scream and yell at me for parking on state land according to the OnX map.  Rather than fight with the resident I walked back to my truck and once I was in cell phone range I contacted the game warden and told him about the incident.  While on the phone with the warden I explained where I was and he agreed I was parked on legal land but also looked up the records from the county to find that the community maintained their road as well as hired out the snow plowing making the road accessible by the residents even though it wasn't marked that way.  He said that you can look up that information at the county office if you are unsure.  He was happy I called to clarify and made contact with the resident who ended up being a pretty decent individual who I was able to meet face to face and apologize for the confusion.  He looked at my OnX with me and said he understood how it could be confusing and was working with his neighbors to make the signs more clear and less confusing for hunters attempting to access public land that is somewhat landlocked.  It's best to call the game warden over a sheriff but both can find the information you are looking for.  And also, I found it very valuable to double back with the resident of the community which I would always encourage if you find yourself in a spot like that.  Most of the people you will talk to appreciate honest mistakes and are hunters as well. 

[bornhunter]

The part about required to post land is true. Land owners are not required to post their land private.

[h2ofowlr]

Last season, I was accessing a BLM spot from the top side, and it was a long hike in.  I had been watching the deer come out of some private land and crossing into the BLM land.  Long story short, the BLM land went down to this dirt road which had a spur off it, so I could drive up onto the BLM land off of this spur.  My rig and me stepping out would be on the BLM land.  The landowner walked up to me and said I couldn't part at this location as I had to access it via a private road that went to private houses.  If I kept my vehicle in that spot, the warden would be called, and I would be given a trespassing ticket.  I showed them my OnXmaps and they said they know.  They have been fighting this and the game warden was issuing tickets.  I tracked down the game warden and he said he would ticket anyone that parked at that location.  I showed him my OnXmaps and he said they had filed a lawsuit to restrict access to that spot as they were anti hunters and would not let any hunters come down their private road.  Moral of the story, if you have to access a public spot via a private road, you probably have to trespass to do so and you may be held accountable for that action.

[Humptulips]

The part about required to post land is true. Land owners are not required to post their land private.

Read my post above on this.

[Macs B]

In this case Hump, the very presence of the road negates the notion that the land is unimproved or unused.  Landowners are not required to fence or blaze their property in order to establish a boundary if other conditions are met ie landings, culverts, logging roads, ertc etc.  I've taken this question to court here in Washington several times and won every time.  The language of the RCW is not misleading, it is simply not complete.  The court record fills in the gaps.   

[hunter399]

I'm gonna say ,when you hit that sign that says no more county maintenance ,then your on a private road.
You need permission.

[bornhunter]

The part about required to post land is true. Land owners are not required to post their land private.

Read my post above on this.