Solar/generator/batteries options

[HuntandFish]

The family and I are moving into a 42’ park model RV while we build our house this year. We live in a cold climate so heat will be on near constant this winter. Our dilemma is we put in all the power infrastructure and we’re suppose to get everything lite up this week, than the power company told us they ran out of transformer’s and we now are committed to moving out on the property…so now I have to figure out how to power everything for what may be months they are telling me….

Being that it is a park model, it has a house fridge, full size microwave, electric fireplace, TV (x3), well pump, on demand water heater (propane) and furnace (propane) along with all the led lights, etc.

Ideally I want to be able to buy 5-10 deep cycle batteries and an inverter, and hopefully run the generator for a few hours every couple days?

I would love input on how to do this, or comments from those that have? Number of batteries, hook up a couple solar panels to trickle charge? Probably don’t need a huge generator to charge the batteries?

Solar I don’t think will work great as we are in NW Montana…

Thanks all!
H&F

[Zardoz]

There are several, "Off Grid and Solar" sites with load calculators on line. it will take some time to crunch the numbers, every situation is different, NO one stop shopping here, you won't be happy with the results. 

If you have the dollars available, hire a LOCAL (experienced, 5+ years in business) Solar company to work it out for you. You trade dollars for headaches..

[lewy]

Out of transformers? I don’t buy that

[Iveexcaped3]

H&F where about?  we were looking at kalispell but unsure due to home school curriculum. Lived in Thompson falls for a year.

As far as transformers go I call BS. Go cut down a power pole and see how fast one comes available 

Zardoz hit it on the head though call a local company to spec out what you need and maybe talking to them about just specing out the house so you don’t even have to deal with the power company again

[NRA4LIFE]

Me neither.  They could get one if they were out of them.  That seems almost ridiculous to me.

However, just my novice opinion here.  If you need to buy 10 quality Deep Cycles, all the connecting hardware and wiring and inverter, you'll be in for $2K or very close.  What type of generator do you have?  I can run my 2400W Yamaha 24/7 for probably $10-$12 a day.  6 months puts you at $2K or very close.  You could run everything on that generator (not all at the same time obviously).

Solar, I don't know squat.

[HuntandFish]

H&F where about?  we were looking at kalispell but unsure due to home school curriculum. Lived in Thompson falls for a year.

As far as transformers go I call BS. Go cut down a power pole and see how fast one comes available 

Zardoz hit it on the head though call a local company to spec out what you need and maybe talking to them about just specing out the house so you don’t even have to deal with the power company again

Our property is in west valley off Farm to Market, backed up to forest service on one side and state land on the other. Just West of Whitefish in the county.

My wife homeschools our kidS…

H&F

[HuntandFish]

Me neither.  They could get one if they were out of them.  That seems almost ridiculous to me.

However, just my novice opinion here.  If you need to buy 10 quality Deep Cycles, all the connecting hardware and wiring and inverter, you'll be in for $2K or very close.  What type of generator do you have?  I can run my 2400W Yamaha 24/7 for probably $10-$12 a day.  6 months puts you at $2K or very close.  You could run everything on that generator (not all at the same time obviously).

Ya I am having a hard time believing it myself…I build homes for a living and have two other houses they are telling me I have to wait to get lite up because they have no transformers…neighboring power companies yard is full of them…not sure what’s going on, but not good!

And yes this was the type of input I am looking for. Maybe a few batteries that charge during the day, run the generator most of the day for normal use stuff, than let the batteries run the furnace all night and kill the fridge at night? Kinda a pain for a few months….

I am hopefully talking to the operations manager tomorrow and get to the bottom of this! Gotta keep the wife happy…

H&F

Solar, I don't know squat.

[Iveexcaped3]

H&F where about?  we were looking at kalispell but unsure due to home school curriculum. Lived in Thompson falls for a year.

As far as transformers go I call BS. Go cut down a power pole and see how fast one comes available 

Zardoz hit it on the head though call a local company to spec out what you need and maybe talking to them about just specing out the house so you don’t even have to deal with the power company again

Our property is in west valley off Farm to Market, backed up to forest service on one side and state land on the other. Just West of Whitefish in the county.

My wife homeschools our kidS…

H&F

I looked around whitefish, but figured there’s more clientele in kalispell. Remodel contractor tough to buy over there right now though. We might end up in Idaho due to the requirements for homeschooling. MT vs ID Idaho has more relaxed requirements, the way WA is going we need to get out quickly.

[CP]

Running the generator a couple hours every few days probably isn’t going to cut it.  You have to put back into the batteries at least what you take out.

Calculate how much power you need, the maximum to run everything that will be on at the same time.  The inverter that you pick will have to handle that power load.

Calculate the energy that you will need over a given time period between charging.  That will size your battery needs. 

Your generator has to be at least powerful enough to run the battery charger.  I wouldn’t bother with solar.

There are lot of products out there that will handle your needs.  For example:


https://www.bluettipower.com/products/ac200max-power-station 

[Iveexcaped3]

What about a whole house emergency generator ran to a temp power pole?

[MR5x5]

It's ultimately a math problem.  You need to calculate out your loads/times in terms of amp hours required and size the various systems from there. Generally solar is not going to cut it unless you plan on putting in quite the spread ($$) of panels and very large stack of batteries.  In the end, for the period of time without services, a diesel generator is probably going to be the best option.  You can eventually size your battery system to compliment the diesel and/or solar systems.  If allowed where you are at you could look to sell solar back to the pwr co in the summer to augment elec cost in the winter.

[andersonjk4]

What HP is your well pump?  Do you already have a pressure tank/storage tank setup for it or just a hydrant?  That is likely your biggest amp draw.  How you plan to use your well for water will probably influence your power setup.  If you are using your well pump for water pressure you will likely need a larger power system as they well pump would need to run concurrent to other loads.  If you are just using the well to fill a storage tank manually then you can be strategic when you run the well pump.  Maybe even have a dedicated generator that you fire up when you need to run the well pump.  I am in a similar situation, but on a larger scale.  I am trying to decide whether to go fully off-grid or pay $80k-$90k to bring power to my new property.  The one thing I have decided for sure is that you want redundancy.  Its a good idea to have a backup plan in the event a generator or inverter goes haywire. 

Getting a pair of generators with a paralleling kit is likely the quickest and easiest solution and would offer some redundancy.  The generators would also likely have pretty good re-sale value in a few months when you get power, or keep to use as back-up power.     

[lee]

Hi,

My only input ... Which is a little off topic but still important is.... Which ever route you take, don't try and recharge a battery bank while 2 charge sources are connected.

Meaning, say you have a solar system set up and operational and then decide to charge the batteries with a generator using either a stand alone charger or the on board charger in the RV..... when you apply power to either of these, they will see the charge from the solar system's voltage and incorrectly think the batteries are charged and go into float mode this not charging the batteries. Disconnect the solar before charging with onboard or external charger with generator.

[NRA4LIFE]

Another option since you have propane would be 1 or 2 propane generators.  You could run them directly from your main tank.  I do not know how much propane they consume though.

[baldopepper]

Friend in the business tells me transformers are in fact very hard to come by right now. Those nasty storms back east have caused a shortage in all all types of electrical supplies he tells me. Power companies all over are being very stingy with their inventories for fear they might get hit with the same type of huge damages that have happened back east.  Don't know if that's true or not, but seems like it could be after seeing the aftermath of some of those disasters on the news.

[dyhardhuntr]

Friend in the business tells me transformers are in fact very hard to come by right now. Those nasty storms back east.  Have caused a shortage in all all types of electrical supplies he tells me. Power companies all over are being very stingy with their inventories for fear they might get hit with the same type of huge damages that have happened back east.  Don't know if that's true or not, but seems like it could be after seeing the aftermath of some of those disasters on the news.

This is very true. For those of you not in the business of suppling power you obviously don’t know the struggles they are going through to get supplies. Baldopepper has it right. The inventory they currently have is being used for emergencies that pop up and or customers that currently have power. New construction is being seen as not an emergency. Just like most every other supply line it is what it is. You can’t make it go faster no matter how hard they try. A couple years ago I could walk across our yard and see 100 transformers ready. Now it’s like 15. I assume the transformer you will get is a ground mounted one not a pole mounted one. What we have been doing is sending guys out to find the “unused “ transformers to see if they are usable and repurposing them. It puts utilities in a bad spot. They aren’t holding things back to be d!?$&.


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[Norman89]

https://www.ruralpowernorthwest.com/ local guy (sheriff) that sells solar panels at a screeming deal from solar farms, I have 10 panels from him that perform perfectly. He often gives a discount code for renogy when you buy panels from him, that's how I got my new renogy 40amp mppt charge controller. My system is poor man as hell with 2 heavy duty truck batteries and been going strong for 5 years powering my shed and carport with a cheapy harbor freight 3000 watt Jupiter inverter. For my needs of outdoor power does great. Would benefit a lot from a proper battery bank but not at today's prices for batteries. Rarely need to run the generator to charge batteries even during trapping season when the carport turns into the fur shed and lights run 2-4 hours every night while I'm skinning

[Russ McDonald]

Hi,

My only input ... Which is a little off topic but still important is.... Which ever route you take, don't try and recharge a battery bank while 2 charge sources are connected.

Meaning, say you have a solar system set up and operational and then decide to charge the batteries with a generator using either a stand alone charger or the on board charger in the RV..... when you apply power to either of these, they will see the charge from the solar system's voltage and incorrectly think the batteries are charged and go into float mode this not charging the batteries. Disconnect the solar before charging with onboard or external charger with generator.

He is correct.  I would look up on YouTube how to hook up solar with inverter to a trailer.  I have looked into it and you will have to have a transfer switch between the generator and solar for your batteries plus a converter which is what charges the batteries in a trailer.  Really need to calculate the load of everything you will be running.  Like some have said a good company that does solar would be great but if your looking to save money look on YouTube.

[fishngamereaper]

There's some chart's that are online that estimates the amount of energy you can generate from solar base on location. I've been doing a bunch of research as we want solar as a back up option for property we are buying in Idaho...from Nov - March we would only be able to create enough energy for 30 percent of our use...that's north central Idaho..so you would be the same or worse.

If I where in your position I would go straight generator. Natural gas or diesel. Gen tran switch in the house and call it a day ..and hope your power company comes through sooner than later.

And the bonus is you invest in a good generator now you have quality stand by gen for your new house already to roll.

[KFhunter]

I got a 100watt panel and best I could get was 80 or so, usually on a sunny day I see 60 or so

Hafta fidget with it to get peak power

I would over spec by a factor of 2

[NRA4LIFE]

I seen a show on off the grid building and they were installing a 4KW or so solar system/batteries and I think the whole setup was around $20K.  If this is truly temporary, I'd go generator.  And like others have said, when you do get your permanent power, you'll have a nice backup system.  I have installed a number of transfer switches, it's pretty easy.

[Special T]

While you are adding up how much power you are using I would map the outlets so you can isolate power consumption.  The key is not using things that draw a heavy load all at the same time.  Go buy a dual fuel generator. I know Costco had some before Christmas. If you have a big propane tank you won't have to fetch gas as much, and you arnt gonna want to deal with that. Buy 6 volt deep cell batteries. I use them in my off grid cabin to run lights charge phones and such.

Your in for an education getting tossed in the deep end of the pool.

[Stein]

If I were you I would run the house on a generator and then a very small battery bank overnight.  It's only a couple months and you will have a backup generator when you are done instead of a huge pile of batteries and large inverter you won't have much use for.

[KFhunter]

Agree, and if a 'couple months' turns into summer without AC... that's a whole bunch more solar crap laying around, or you sweating it out in a hotbox.

[HuntandFish]

This is all great input everybody. It looks like I am going generator shopping this weekend! Going to start with 4 batteries wired parallel and see how that goes!

I will give an update in a few weeks!

H&F

[KFhunter]

You might consider two genny's,   a small 2200 inverter will power a lot of your stuff and sip the gas


I would not do dual fuel, you're going to run it too much and they aren't as efficient.  I would rent a tank, 250 gallon, and run your propane furnace off that. 

Another option is buy a couple 100lb tanks and use those instead of your smaller 30lb tanks

Skirt your trailer with straw or something, that'll help a lot keeping water lines from freezing.   Heat tape your waterline.


If you haven't wintered in an RV before you're in for a stiff learning curve, I did it in college for a while and found it was cheaper to rent an apartment than suck all that propane and crap I was dealing with living in an RV


Maybe rent an apartment??      

Oh and heating blankets on your bed set to warm up 30-40 minutes before sleep

[KFhunter]

Solar don't work so good in the winter folks, and he'll be on the grid hopefully by spring. 

[HuntandFish]

You might consider two genny's,   a small 2200 inverter will power a lot of your stuff and sip the gas


I would not do dual fuel, you're going to run it too much and they aren't as efficient.  I would rent a tank, 250 gallon, and run your propane furnace off that. 

Another option is buy a couple 100lb tanks and use those instead of your smaller 30lb tanks

Skirt your trailer with straw or something, that'll help a lot keeping water lines from freezing.   Heat tape your waterline.


If you haven't wintered in an RV before you're in for a stiff learning curve, I did it in college for a while and found it was cheaper to rent an apartment than suck all that propane and crap I was dealing with living in an RV


Maybe rent an apartment??      

Oh and heating blankets on your bed set to warm up 30-40 minutes before sleep

Ha! Totally agree, have never tried to live in an RV especially not through a Montana winter…bro love it or not we are leaving a perfectly good house 15min down the road, I have tried to convince the wife this is a bad idea with 4 kids…but she doesn’t want to stay in our house as she doesn’t like it at all. Plus her and the kids want to enjoy the 33 acres full time…can’t say I am pushing back too hard…we all like to live in the woods, this town living has got us going crazy!

And yes, good idea about the two generators, I have an older 9000w that is loud and not efficient, I think I grab a quiet 3500w and use that for the everyday things and to charge 4 batteries, use the big Gen for the well pump when need to fill the tanks and try to get through each night running the fridge and heater on batteries….

I will let you know how it all is going…we are moving the trailer up there Monday and will start the moving process all next week and hopefully living full time by the following…fingers crossed they find some transformers….

H&F