Wyoming 90/10 passed

[dvolmer]

Well looks like the 90/10 law was signed into law in Wyoming.  90% of all of the tags will go to residents with non-residents only getting 10%. Affects all of the non-resident Wyoming moose, sheep, goat, and bison tags.  Tags that took 20-25 years to draw now will take over 50 years to draw and due to the cut in non-res tag numbers, most random draw tags will disappear.  Sort of a bait and switch situation for all of you that have been buying the $100 points each year.  Eastmans is thinking there will be class action lawsuits possibly over it.  There was so much revenue extracted out of the non-resident point buyers over the last 30 or so years that if they had to refund the applicants it would bankrupt the department. I bailed out of the zoo a few years ago when they raised the point cost from $50 to $100 and more then doubled the cost of the actual tag if and when you do finally draw.  It got to the point that doing a Canadian Moose guided hunt was not much more than the Wyoming option and you don't have to wait half a lifetime to actually hunt. The state of Wyoming will loose a ton of revenue over it also because many of the 12,000 point buyers each year will bail now that they realize they will never get a tag.  Ill try to post the Eastmans blog that explains it all better.

[dvolmer]

https://blog.eastmans.com/wyoming-passes-90-10-the-worst-article-youll-read-this-year/

It's interesting to read the comments at the end of the article.  There are some pretty peeved people.  Im not in the game but this still gets my blood boiling.  It's like buying into a big game raffle where the cost of the ticket is $100 and they tell you only 100 tickets will be sold.  So you think. "What the heck, I'll give it a try" and then you find out that they sold 10,000 tickets and gobbled up all of your money and majorly skewed the odds.  The old bait and switch scheme!

[Wolfdog2314]

It’s never any good news. At least I haven’t been investing in those points there.

[trophyhunt]

Sure hope I draw a gen tag this year. I guess I’ll focus on other states now, too bad.

[Stein]

Historically, western states were very reluctant to raise resident costs because hunters would absolutely come unhinged over even the most minor increases.  I remember a few that were something like a $7 increase and pitchforks came out.  So, game departments would stick it to NR's, we bitch and then write checks for whatever they ask.

Now, there seems to be a trend of resident hunters willing to bear greater costs in return for either less NR pressure overall or a bigger pool of resident draw tags.  It's a trade that really makes sense for resident hunters in many eyes.  I think this is one of those examples.  I wouldn't be surprised to see more.

[dvolmer]

Historically, western states were very reluctant to raise resident costs because hunters would absolutely come unhinged over even the most minor increases.  I remember a few that were something like a $7 increase and pitchforks came out.  So, game departments would stick it to NR's, we bitch and then write checks for whatever they ask.

Now, there seems to be a trend of resident hunters willing to bear greater costs in return for either less NR pressure overall or a bigger pool of resident draw tags.  It's a trade that really makes sense for resident hunters in many eyes.  I think this is one of those examples.  I wouldn't be surprised to see more.

. Agreed.

[lhrbull]

I guess I was lucky to get the moose out of the way last year

[Iveexcaped3]

Yeah it sucks but at the same time why should Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah take on the burden because other states like Washington Oregon and California fail to actually manage game.
Maybe it’ll get hunters to start putting fire under their own departments ass instead of saying “I’ll just hunt out of state and not buy tags here”

[CaNINE]

Just what I needed….another reason in a long list of compelling reasons to move to Wyoming.

[WAcoyotehunter]

If they make the same change to Deer elk and antelope it will cost them a fortune.   Hopefully they don't, I would be done and have to eat a decade worth of point fees

[WAcoyotehunter]

Yeah it sucks but at the same time why should Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah take on the burden because other states like Washington Oregon and California fail to actually manage game.
Maybe it’ll get hunters to start putting fire under their own departments ass instead of saying “I’ll just hunt out of state and not buy tags here”

That's true.  But TBH hunters in WA are CA have no influence over larger wildlife and habitat issues.  We just don't have a big enough voice here.

It is a frustration that much of the NonRes hunting in those states occurs on federal property,  that belongs to us as much as the residents.   WY has been gradually putting the screws to NRs for a while,  starting with the guide requirement on wilderness

[link]

Sure hope I draw a gen tag this year. I guess I’ll focus on other states now, too bad.

If they do go further and get the 90/10 for DEA, I sure wouldn't think it would affect NR general elk tags or general region deer tags. Those are already unlimited, OTC for the residents. One side effect would be more NRs would be putting in for the general elk and deer tags instead of the LQs. No matter how you look at it though, it is a kick in the nuts to the NRs.

[Iveexcaped3]

Yeah it sucks but at the same time why should Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah take on the burden because other states like Washington Oregon and California fail to actually manage game.
Maybe it’ll get hunters to start putting fire under their own departments ass instead of saying “I’ll just hunt out of state and not buy tags here”

That's true.  But TBH hunters in WA are CA have no influence over larger wildlife and habitat issues.  We just don't have a big enough voice here.

It is a frustration that much of the NonRes hunting in those states occurs on federal property,  that belongs to us as much as the residents.   WY has been gradually putting the screws to NRs for a while,  starting with the guide requirement on wilderness

I think that’s because we’re approaching it the wrong way. We need a group that’s non hunting related that advocates for big game. Rmef has done well but is also tied to hunting, we need something that will allow hunters to silently support but will also draw interest in the general public so we can get rid of some of these preds.

[GWP]

With all the he complaining on here about the same issues in this State about loss of hunting and fishing opportunities, I would presume any effort to preserve local hunting ‘anywhere’ would be applauded. Or not.
Things change. Rules need to change as well to align with the ‘new reality’. It sucks, but it is, inevitable.

[kselkhunter]

If they make the same change to Deer elk and antelope it will cost them a fortune.   Hopefully they don't, I would be done and have to eat a decade worth of point fees

The legislators are already working on the bill for deer/elk/antelope to move to 90/10.  The Eastman's article references that.  What he's hearing is they will cut the deer/elk/antelope NR tags, but allocate a chunk of them to outfitters and landowner tags instead of going in the draw for non-residents.  Basically they want to force most NR hunters to use an outfitter or pay to hunt private land.  But that deer/elk/antelope bill is still being discussed what the final parameters will be.

[Stein]

With DEA, there are other voices that will come into play like hotel owners.  With OIL stuff, the financial impact is pretty limited and outfitters can speak loudly.

If I was a hotel owner that catered to traveling hunters I would be pretty vocal about the outfitters wanting all or even more tags.

Not to say it won't happen, but it's going to be different because of this as well as a lack of benefit to resident hunters.  The outfitters would be on their own with that one.  It's a more naked money grab than the discussion of giving more tags to residents.

[kselkhunter]

With DEA, there are other voices that will come into play like hotel owners.  With OIL stuff, the financial impact is pretty limited and outfitters can speak loudly.

If I was a hotel owner that catered to traveling hunters I would be pretty vocal about the outfitters wanting all or even more tags.

Not to say it won't happen, but it's going to be different because of this as well as a lack of benefit to resident hunters.  The outfitters would be on their own with that one.  It's a more naked money grab than the discussion of giving more tags to residents.

In the proposed DEA bill landowners would also get some of those tags that used to go to non-residents.   So this is large landowners also flexing their muscles alongside the outfitters.  Those large landowners control alot of WY politics. 

[Stein]

Very true.  Many times the landowners are the outfitters as well. 

[bobcat]

With DEA, there are other voices that will come into play like hotel owners.  With OIL stuff, the financial impact is pretty limited and outfitters can speak loudly.

If I was a hotel owner that catered to traveling hunters I would be pretty vocal about the outfitters wanting all or even more tags.

Not to say it won't happen, but it's going to be different because of this as well as a lack of benefit to resident hunters.  The outfitters would be on their own with that one.  It's a more naked money grab than the discussion of giving more tags to residents.

In the proposed DEA bill landowners would also get some of those tags that used to go to non-residents.   So this is large landowners also flexing their muscles alongside the outfitters.  Those large landowners control alot of WY politics.

I don't believe there's any bill or anything else that's been written up or proposed yet for deer, elk, and antelope. There's talk by hunters on internet forums about "what if." But that's about it at this point, as far as I know.

[kselkhunter]

With DEA, there are other voices that will come into play like hotel owners.  With OIL stuff, the financial impact is pretty limited and outfitters can speak loudly.

If I was a hotel owner that catered to traveling hunters I would be pretty vocal about the outfitters wanting all or even more tags.

Not to say it won't happen, but it's going to be different because of this as well as a lack of benefit to resident hunters.  The outfitters would be on their own with that one.  It's a more naked money grab than the discussion of giving more tags to residents.

In the proposed DEA bill landowners would also get some of those tags that used to go to non-residents.   So this is large landowners also flexing their muscles alongside the outfitters.  Those large landowners control alot of WY politics.

I don't believe there's any bill or anything else that's been written up or proposed yet for deer, elk, and antelope. There's talk by hunters on internet forums about "what if." But that's about it at this point, as far as I know.

You are correct the bill for 90/10 deer/elk/antelope has not been released as a bill yet.  Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word "bill". But it is being defined right now by the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force to work out the details prior to be worked on as a bill in the legislature.  Guy Eastman covers the details in the article.  He admits it's still a ways off from becoming a bill because they have to figure out how to replace the revenue yet.   But it appears to be a "when and how" rather than an "if" situation at this point.  He shared what he knows of the current status of that discussion from his friends on the Task Force.  And that is what I was referring to.  I should have used the word "plan" instead of "bill".

[NRA4LIFE]

Not surprised.  I gave up on WY 20 years ago and may never go again.  After this year, maybe no more MT either.

[idaho guy]

I was just debating jumping in. Probably good I forgot to buy points or apply every year. Still considering deer/elk but looks grim also. I think I will just stay Idaho and Montana that’s pretty much the only places I have consistently hunted. The multiple state applications just seem to get worse every year.

[andrew_in_idaho]

I was just debating jumping in. Probably good I forgot to buy points or apply every year. Still considering deer/elk but looks grim also. I think I will just stay Idaho and Montana that’s pretty much the only places I have consistently hunted. The multiple state applications just seem to get worse every year.

The one thing Wyoming really has going for it is the ability to apply and get an antelope tag most any year you want, and I don’t think that will change even with 90/10


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[lhrbull]

Just glad I got my moose last year but probably never get the sheep tag now with 22 years of dedication

[KDB]

I believe that his bill starts on January 1, 2023. Is my assumption right. Hope so because I have 20 moose points.

[lhrbull]

90/10 for moose sheep goats doesn't come into effect till 2023

[archerykraze]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

[KFhunter]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

[archerykraze]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

 :chuckle:That'd be one trophy of a tom to drive 500 miles for.

[archerykraze]

Sorry to derail the thread earlier. If the 90/10 split is being worked on to possibly be implemented in the future I'm fearing folks that have been applying for the harder to draw trophy hunts are gonna settle and apply for easier draw units so they don't waste points/time. Be very interesting to see what happens with points to draw (draw odds) with the upcoming WY deer/antelope apps. Let the point dumping begin.

[greenhead_killer]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

i think youre underestimating how many nr are applying for our oil tags. hard to track as they dont have to buy license to buy points on them. if i were a nr hunter, id spend the $39 it costs to apply for oil tags. we dont know what the actual number is until they draw. we should follow suit of other states and drop it to 10% nr on oils

[andrew_in_idaho]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

i think youre underestimating how many nr are applying for our oil tags. hard to track as they dont have to buy license to buy points on them. if i were a nr hunter, id spend the $39 it costs to apply for oil tags. we dont know what the actual number is until they draw. we should follow suit of other states and drop it to 10% nr on oils

Except it’s not $39 it’s $113/species


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[Stein]

OIL are the only big draw for NRs in WA unless you have friends or family here you want to hunt with.  There are only so many places you can hunt sheep, goats and moose and the odds are so low everywhere I would think anyone really wanting to hunt one would apply in WA as well as the other states.

[snake]

Maybe areas in Washington like Spokane should only allow 10% of the workforce to be non residents.  It would clean out most of the job sites I'm on.

[idaho guy]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

i think youre underestimating how many nr are applying for our oil tags. hard to track as they dont have to buy license to buy points on them. if i were a nr hunter, id spend the $39 it costs to apply for oil tags. we dont know what the actual number is until they draw. we should follow suit of other states and drop it to 10% nr on oils

Except it’s not $39 it’s $113/species


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Washington is a terrible deal for non residents. Non resident youth is the only thing that makes sense. The odds don’t justify the cost at all. I would be shocked if there are many putting in.  Some die hard sheep and goat guys that apply in every possible state probably put in. The raffle tickets are better odds I think.

[andrew_in_idaho]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

i think youre underestimating how many nr are applying for our oil tags. hard to track as they dont have to buy license to buy points on them. if i were a nr hunter, id spend the $39 it costs to apply for oil tags. we dont know what the actual number is until they draw. we should follow suit of other states and drop it to 10% nr on oils

Except it’s not $39 it’s $113/species


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Washington is a terrible deal for non residents. Non resident youth is the only thing that makes sense. The odds don’t justify the cost at all. I would be shocked if there are many putting in.  Some die hard sheep and goat guys that apply in every possible state probably put in. The raffle tickets are better odds I think.

I actually hunted Washington for the first time since I moved to Idaho last year, it was kinda cool to be able to pick up a deer tag the day before season and hunt with family. Helped my brother in law to kill his first muley buck and had a fleeting opportunity at a pretty decent buck but the real value was in spending a week hunting with my dad, grandpa and other family


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[idaho guy]

Maybe Washington should designate at least 10% or even 20% of its limited entry tags for nonresidents.

Washington doesn't get many non-res other than Turkey, and I think it would be difficult to justify limited entry Turkey tags 

i think youre underestimating how many nr are applying for our oil tags. hard to track as they dont have to buy license to buy points on them. if i were a nr hunter, id spend the $39 it costs to apply for oil tags. we dont know what the actual number is until they draw. we should follow suit of other states and drop it to 10% nr on oils

Except it’s not $39 it’s $113/species


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Washington is a terrible deal for non residents. Non resident youth is the only thing that makes sense. The odds don’t justify the cost at all. I would be shocked if there are many putting in.  Some die hard sheep and goat guys that apply in every possible state probably put in. The raffle tickets are better odds I think.

I actually hunted Washington for the first time since I moved to Idaho last year, it was kinda cool to be able to pick up a deer tag the day before season and hunt with family. Helped my brother in law to kill his first muley buck and had a fleeting opportunity at a pretty decent buck but the real value was in spending a week hunting with my dad, grandpa and other family


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The oil tags application cost for the odds look like a terrible deal to me. The raffle tickets would be a better  deal I think. Even that’s terrible odds unless you spend a ton of money. I can see nr buying otc deer and elk tags 👍 especially hunters from states without any elk to hunt. As other states get more restricted with tags I could see people from east or Midwest buying the elk tags otc just for a chance to chase elk. Without having to play the points game. I don’t know? People are buying points and putting in for pretty low quality hunts right now just to have a tag. Anyways I think the oil draws are not a good deal for nr. I thought they were talking about capping those at 10 percent. Probably not necessary. I don’t think many nr hunters are buying the otc licenses either but that could change as other western states keep getting harder to draw