Wolves eating all our deer

[wolfbait]

So, in the meantime we can do a few other things(things we should try to do anyway!)- one improve range conditions so winter kill is not so severe.  Spray weeds and manage pastures to increase the carrying capacity of our lands. Maybe push the WDFW to cut doe tags. 

I don't thiink you git the jist of it all. When winter comes, things just git 50% werce for the deer. The deer are not as strong in the winter time, harder for them to make it. If it snows alot the wolves just wipe the deer out, unless you have one hell of a big heater to melt all the snow that is where it stands. As you know the wsgd dont like people feeding the deer. As far as cutting doe tags, There won't be any huntin here in another year. People don't go hunt in places that don't have any game.

[WDFW-SUX]

Like I've been saying, show me some sort of evidence.  All these people saw a white van and all these people saw a cow being killed, not one has come forward and not one photo has been produced....

were working on it.

[wolfbait]

I don't blame them for clamming up when the yocals start killing endangered species.  

Come on git real, they been planting these wolves in here for along time, how many per year did they put in here? they lied, sneaked, shoved it down our throats. And you want to blame the locals. I am sorry but that just don't fly!!!!!!!!

[wolfbait]

The damage that has all ready been done to the ecosystem, would take years to recover if you got rid of most of the wolves today. It is way to late, to even start thinking that we will recover from this, all we can do is try to save what we have left.

[WAcoyotehunter]

So, in the meantime we can do a few other things(things we should try to do anyway!)- one improve range conditions so winter kill is not so severe.  Spray weeds and manage pastures to increase the carrying capacity of our lands. Maybe push the WDFW to cut doe tags.  

I don't thiink you git the jist of it all. When winter comes, things just git 50% werce for the deer. The deer are not as strong in the winter time, harder for them to make it. If it snows alot the wolves just wipe the deer out, unless you have one hell of a big heater to melt all the snow that is where it stands. As you know the wsgd dont like people feeding the deer. As far as cutting doe tags, There won't be any huntin here in another year. People don't go hunt in places that don't have any game.

You asked for solutions so there you are- increase range productivity and increase deer winter survival to help offset the effect of wolf predation...

You're right, I probably just don't "git the jist of it" it must be more prudent to sit online and bitch about how screwed we all are and how hunting in Washington has effectively been eliminated...maybe we should make up some big unfounded stories about a conspricy....whatever.  We still have an opportunity to help the situation- if we decide to make the best of it is our choice.  

I'm going hunting this year, even with the wolves.   You asked for some solutions, I gave a couple.  What are your ideas to help the problem?

BTW- you remind me of this guy "longshot" on this board.  Are you familiar with this forum? http://www.methownet.com/bulletinboard.html

[WAcoyotehunter]

The damage that has all ready been done to the ecosystem, would take years to recover if you got rid of most of the wolves today. It is way to late, to even start thinking that we will recover from this, all we can do is try to save what we have left.

Do you still hunt?  I'm not sure I believe that there had been all that much damage done.  There are wolves up here, in fact I see their tracks where I elk hunt.  I still see elk... I don't believe this doomsday scenario that you're suggesting.  Again, show some eveidence.  I'm still waiting on you to show evidence (even one single shread...common....anything) that proves a transplant has occured.   

[bearpaw]

There is quite a bit of emotion occuring concerning this topic. I would suggest we look at the facts and at history for some guidance.

1.  A managed population of wolves has co-existed with deer and elk in BC and Alberta for decades which are still two of the most sought after hunting destinations. 

2.  An unmanaged wolf population has really devastated game populations in some areas of Idaho, etc.   

3.  The feds are going to force resident wolf populations into the designated recovery states and the only way that management will occur is when population levels are proven to exceed the minimum target.

4.  The F&W Service and the courts are not going to allow management until the target number of wolves has been proven to exist.

5.  I believe the State of Washington still has wolves listed in all areas.


OK, with all these considerations and if you are a progressive thinker it should be fairly obvious what must happen. 

A.  Get a reasonable management plan in place.
B.  Plan needs to designate suitable wolf zones, buffer zones, and no-wolf zones.
C.  Establish management to maintain wolf numbers that are compatable with zones.
C.  Report and Document Wolf Sightings.
D.  Collect proof of sightings such as photos, droppings, tracks.
E.  Report all incidents of Predation.
F.  Prove that wolves are responsible for the predation.
G.  Lobby your legislators and the F&W Service to establish and implement the plan.

Disclaimer: I don't want wolves and wish they weren't here. 

But wolves are here and more are coming so we all better plan for it and try to make the most of the situation. There are people that are trying to get a plan in place, we need to try and help them out in any way we can so a management plan gets implemented sooner. 

[wolfbait]

So, in the meantime we can do a few other things(things we should try to do anyway!)- one improve range conditions so winter kill is not so severe.  Spray weeds and manage pastures to increase the carrying capacity of our lands. Maybe push the WDFW to cut doe tags.  

I don't thiink you git the jist of it all. When winter comes, things just git 50% werce for the deer. The deer are not as strong in the winter time, harder for them to make it. If it snows alot the wolves just wipe the deer out, unless you have one hell of a big heater to melt all the snow that is where it stands. As you know the wsgd dont like people feeding the deer. As far as cutting doe tags, There won't be any huntin here in another year. People don't go hunt in places that don't have any game.

You asked for solutions so there you are- increase range productivity and increase deer winter survival to help offset the effect of wolf predation...

You're right, I probably just don't "git the jist of it" it must be more prudent to sit online and bitch about how screwed we all are and how hunting in Washington has effectively been eliminated...maybe we should make up some big unfounded stories about a conspricy....whatever.  We still have an opportunity to help the situation- if we decide to make the best of it is our choice.  

I'm going hunting this year, even with the wolves.   You asked for some solutions, I gave a couple.  What are your ideas to help the problem?

BTW- you remind me of this guy "longshot" on this board.  Are you familiar with this forum? http://www.methownet.com/bulletinboard.html

heres how I see it, these wolves grow faster than the deer ever will, they eat lotsa deer, and about anything else that they run across. we had the biggest mule deer herd in the country it has been said here in the okanogan county. even with the amount of coyotes we have which is a ton of em, cuz people don't hunt them like they use to, plus the big cats, we still had a good herd. But now with the added wolves we are losing deer 24-7-365 days a year. how do you think we can expand the deer range? how would you sugjest we make it easier on the deer in the winner time? I know this county and how things work here in the great outdoors I ben through Idaho, an montana, and I know what is goin on there with there game, they have been battlein this fight a hell of alot longer than us. lot of us  locals that ben here since who flung the chunk, we git together and talk about things going on here with the wolves, and we all have bout the same idea.

[wolfbait]

I agree with you bearpaw, but after what has happened with states delisting n relisting, I just am couious, to see how many wolves we end up with in the end and how much game we lose. These wolves, we are stuck with till the end, no doubt.

[boneaddict]

Addressing one thing at a time while I have a second.  Bearpaw.your KEY to your first point.,  Managed population versus unmanaged.  Banff is having a tremendous problem with their current wolves due to the inaccessibility of a bunch of the country to hunt.  THe wolves are unchecked and have decimated the elk.  Also heresay which I know we all love on this site, has changed the way they act act in regards to vocalization.   EVEN with aggressive hunting, the wolf population is doing just fine.  

[boneaddict]

Yep, I agree withthe rest.  Lots of pessimissm in the ranks for obvious reasons.  We understand the troubles Idaho and Montana and Wyoming are having with their general population, yet we know what the majority is here in this state.  Will be interesting for sure.  I always said why don't we release a dozen of them in downtown Olympia and Washington DC......SEE how they like it.

[Kain]

 http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/hunter/gametrails/2004/cougardeer_studyhtm.htm

One study found that grey wolves increased by 800% over six years following the cessation of a wolf control program in Alaska.

   

And that is an area that is used to wolves.  Imagine how fast that could happen with areas that have never had wolves before.  Well I guess we dont have to imagine, just look at Idaho and Yellowstone.

You guys have to start reporting sightings and evidence.  Get yourself some trail cams if you can. 

[Machias]

Good points Bearpaw,  one thing though, they have already far exceeded the original management levels that were prescribed for full and complete recovery....a few years ago they blew past those numbers of animals and breeding pairs.  I believe sportsmen would have been much more open to the wolves as a whole if we had even an inkling of trust with the USFW or the courts, which we don't since they keep moving the goal line while we watch the elk numbers in ID and MT plummet.

[groundhog]

I agree Bone. They need to translocate some to the wetside!! All the non hunting city folks over there think wolves are great as long as they are not in their back yard!

[bearpaw]

Yes I know MT, ID, and WY all are above, I was referring to Washington, they want more wolves here yet...

Maybe we could use a white van, let's drop off a couple of packs in OLY and SEA and see how they like it....