Special draw structure changes

[blacktailcrzy]

Are there any meetings that can be attended to advocate for changes to the points and draw structures?

[saylean]

You can mention that anytime during public comment or submit a petition for the commission to consider it.

[trophyhunt]

Never hurts to email the permit manager and commision, even though our commish is a joke.

[dagon]

What kind of changes would you like to see?

[Ghost Hunter]

22 adult ram tags, 22 goat, and 105 antlered moose in 2023, start with making OIL's resident only.  Allow NR to bid on auction tags and buy raffle tickets, doubt that alone would change the odds much.

Need predator control and a desire to rebuild herd numbers regardless of any point or no point system.

[trophyhunt]

Again, best way to immediately change drawing odds for OIL’s,  make people purchase tags to be in the draw. Refunds to those not drawn, email permit manager and commission.

[boneaddict]

 

[Ghost Hunter]

100%   

[GOcougsHunter]

22 adult ram tags, 22 goat, and 105 antlered moose in 2023, start with making OIL's resident only.  Allow NR to bid on auction tags and buy raffle tickets, doubt that alone would change the odds much.

Need predator control and a desire to rebuild herd numbers regardless of any point or no point system.

I could totally get behind allowing only residents allowed to apply for OIL.   Every other state has Non Resident stipulations for a myriad of species.  Our OIL resource is theoretically constrained and unless the animal numbers shoot up dramatically, it makes no sense to open it up to everyone in the country.  The cash difference between a NR tag vs a resident tag is nominal.  The department could make up the difference easily when NR simply shift their application money to the raffle draws.

[X-Force]

 

The only changes WDFW will listen to is ones that increase revenue

[idahohuntr]

1 bull moose tag and 0 ram tags went to NR's in 2022.

I'd be all for changes to the draw...the problem is, when this discussion gets raised there is never anywhere close to consensus and so it stays status quo. 

To really make a run at changes you would need to articulate a clear objective/goal and then get a lot of buy in from multiple user groups.  I think under this commission we really could get traction, but it would require building consensus on what the larger objective should be. 

[kentrek]

Idk if Washington has a bunch of non resident oil competition...but with that said if we could split Washington up region by region and let the residents of that region have 1st pick of those tags we could really cut down on the competition 

[KNOPHISH]

What happened to all those transplanted goats from the Olympics? Shouldn’t goat tags be increasing? I think it was over 200 relocated.

[luvmystang67]

What happened to all those transplanted goats from the Olympics? Shouldn’t goat tags be increasing? I think it was over 200 relocated.

I think some horrific number of them died, like 60%.  They had awful survival rates.

[boneaddict]

Idk if Washington has a bunch of non resident oil competition...but with that said if we could split Washington up region by region and let the residents of that region have 1st pick of those tags we could really cut down on the competition 

Probably more than you think, with the price structure the way it is.   

[Skyvalhunter]

 

If you read some of the magazines they advocate putting in for WA OIL permits.

[Farmer72]

Idk if Washington has a bunch of non resident oil competition...but with that said if we could split Washington up region by region and let the residents of that region have 1st pick of those tags we could really cut down on the competition 

Or you would have a lot of new neighbors.

[steeleywhopper]

Again, best way to immediately change drawing odds for OIL’s,  make people purchase tags to be in the draw. Refunds to those not drawn, email permit manager and commission.

Exactly! Go back to the old system of doing the OIL's

[Dhoey07]

Earn a bonus point for every tagged cougar and bear

[huntingfool7]

Get rid of the point system.

[hughjorgan]

Get rid of the point system.

The bonus point system isn’t understood by a majority of the people that are applying every year. I think folks believe if they’ve been applying for ten years those ten points give them one hundred chances in the draw. But in reality those points generate a hundred random numbers and out of these numbers the lowest number is picked and that ONE number is what is in the draw. But it is a great marketing gimmick and people get heated when you talk about going to a system with no bonus points cause they think all those years of applying bought them that many more names in the draw.

 We should model our system more like Idahos where if you choose to apply for a deer or elk permit you can’t apply for an OIL tag. Only way to increase odds is having less people in the draw and making people choose between applying for a deer and elk permit or a chance at an OIL tag will accomplish having less people in the lottery.

[elkslayer069]

Get rid of the point system.

The bonus point system isn’t understood by a majority of the people that are applying every year. I think folks believe if they’ve been applying for ten years those ten points give them one hundred chances in the draw. But in reality those points generate a hundred random numbers and out of these numbers the lowest number is picked and that ONE number is what is in the draw. But it is a great marketing gimmick and people get heated when you talk about going to a system with no bonus points cause they think all those years of applying bought them that many more names in the draw.

 We should model our system more like Idahos where if you choose to apply for a deer or elk permit you can’t apply for an OIL tag. Only way to increase odds is having less people in the draw and making people choose between applying for a deer and elk permit or a chance at an OIL tag will accomplish having less people in the lottery.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[Limhangerslayer]

Get rid of the point system.

The bonus point system isn’t understood by a majority of the people that are applying every year. I think folks believe if they’ve been applying for ten years those ten points give them one hundred chances in the draw. But in reality those points generate a hundred random numbers and out of these numbers the lowest number is picked and that ONE number is what is in the draw. But it is a great marketing gimmick and people get heated when you talk about going to a system with no bonus points cause they think all those years of applying bought them that many more names in the draw.

 We should model our system more like Idahos where if you choose to apply for a deer or elk permit you can’t apply for an OIL tag. Only way to increase odds is having less people in the draw and making people choose between applying for a deer and elk permit or a chance at an OIL tag will accomplish having less people in the lottery.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

and another way for all draws is you only get one choice, that would help bigger then anything in the elk and deer draws

[bobcat]

Get rid of the point system.

The bonus point system isn’t understood by a majority of the people that are applying every year. I think folks believe if they’ve been applying for ten years those ten points give them one hundred chances in the draw. But in reality those points generate a hundred random numbers and out of these numbers the lowest number is picked and that ONE number is what is in the draw. But it is a great marketing gimmick and people get heated when you talk about going to a system with no bonus points cause they think all those years of applying bought them that many more names in the draw.

 We should model our system more like Idahos where if you choose to apply for a deer or elk permit you can’t apply for an OIL tag. Only way to increase odds is having less people in the draw and making people choose between applying for a deer and elk permit or a chance at an OIL tag will accomplish having less people in the lottery.

Actually it sounds like you don't understand how it works. Ten points DOES give you 100 times better odds than 1 point.

[hughjorgan]

Get rid of the point system.

The bonus point system isn’t understood by a majority of the people that are applying every year. I think folks believe if they’ve been applying for ten years those ten points give them one hundred chances in the draw. But in reality those points generate a hundred random numbers and out of these numbers the lowest number is picked and that ONE number is what is in the draw. But it is a great marketing gimmick and people get heated when you talk about going to a system with no bonus points cause they think all those years of applying bought them that many more names in the draw.

 We should model our system more like Idahos where if you choose to apply for a deer or elk permit you can’t apply for an OIL tag. Only way to increase odds is having less people in the draw and making people choose between applying for a deer and elk permit or a chance at an OIL tag will accomplish having less people in the lottery.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

and another way for all draws is you only get one choice, that would help bigger then anything in the elk and deer draws

Agreed

[hughjorgan]

Get rid of the point system.

The bonus point system isn’t understood by a majority of the people that are applying every year. I think folks believe if they’ve been applying for ten years those ten points give them one hundred chances in the draw. But in reality those points generate a hundred random numbers and out of these numbers the lowest number is picked and that ONE number is what is in the draw. But it is a great marketing gimmick and people get heated when you talk about going to a system with no bonus points cause they think all those years of applying bought them that many more names in the draw.

 We should model our system more like Idahos where if you choose to apply for a deer or elk permit you can’t apply for an OIL tag. Only way to increase odds is having less people in the draw and making people choose between applying for a deer and elk permit or a chance at an OIL tag will accomplish having less people in the lottery.

Actually it sounds like you don't understand how it works. Ten points DOES give you 100 times better odds than 1 point.

This is exactly what I am saying an average person doesn’t understand how our bonus point system works. We have the same system as Nevada.

When you have ten points it is squared and you are assigned one hundred random numbers. The lowest number out of those numbers generated is assigned to your draw you put in for. The lower the number you get the better chance you have at drawing. You have better odds at getting a lower number than some one with one point but I wouldn’t say it is hundred to one better. You still only get the one random number just like the guy that has one point.

[bobcat]

Drawing a lower number is the way in which you actually drww a tag. So with 100 numbers versus only one number, your odds are certainly better. And I'd say 100 times better. It's irrelevant that you only end up with only one number. The lowest number out of the 100 is the only one that matters. All you need is a lower number than other applicants who applied for the same permit you did.

Not saying I'm a fan of the point system at all. It doesn't work properly with too many applicants relative to the number of permits available.

[Ghost Hunter]

Ow many numbers do they use in relation to how many applications.  0 to infinity?

[kentrek]

People complain about every system in every state...there is no chance at pleasing people

I wonder how long until greedy hunters start trying to pull tags from the youth categories

[huntnphool]

 The “system” is doing exactly what it was designed to do, raise revenue!

 It’s amazing how many Washington hunters can’t see the forest through the trees! But then again, I’d imagine the majority of them also don’t see the result of their voting “D” down ballot!

[hughjorgan]

Ow many numbers do they use in relation to how many applications.  0 to infinity?

1 to 99 million is how nevadas is so I’m going to assume that’s how ours is setup as well.

[MeepDog]

We don't need 4 choices for antlerless, buck, cow, etc. I'd be fine with cutting them in half. 1 choice for quality, 2 choices for everything's else.

[trophyhunt]

Ow many numbers do they use in relation to how many applications.  0 to infinity?

Ive asked this question in person, it’s 0-infinity.  I’ve asked them a few times if changing the infinity number to the number of applicants would improve odds, but they don’t think it would. I think it would help, but I’m not a numbers guy.

[Buckjunkie]

We don't need 4 choices for antlerless, buck, cow, etc. I'd be fine with cutting them in half. 1 choice for quality, 2 choices for everything's else.

You don’t have to put in choice 2-4. Lots of people have drawn their 3rd or 4th choice. The Wa draw process goes through all of your choices before moving on to the next applicant.

[idahohuntr]

There are unlimited potential changes to point systems - that's the easy part. 

The hard part: What are you trying to achieve?