Commission Meeting - August 2023

[87Ford]

We are wondering what Firstgenhunter meant when he posted…. “This is the start of something massive”

[nwwanderer]

Been tried all over the planet, decreased hunting, management, collapses wildlife populations.  Use Kenya as an example.  The new age folks will tell you that Kenya collapsed because of humans and livestock.  Why then are numbers thriving in hunted areas where critters have value?

[blackdog]

Folks we are in deep *censored*.

[hunter399]

Folks we are in deep *censored*.

Voted best comment on this topic all day.
"My opinion"

[TriggerMike]

We are wondering what Firstgenhunter meant when he posted…. “This is the start of something massive”

Yep. Thank you. I have no idea what Hunter399 is going on about.

[Ntbutcher]

We are wondering what Firstgenhunter meant when he posted…. “This is the start of something massive”

Yep. Thank you. I have no idea what Hunter399 is going on about.

Might be referring to the proposed closure of Bear and Cougar hunting starting April 2024. As well as Elk draw only. I've heard this referenced several times. I'd be interested if someone could lets us know the context surrounding this statement.

[TriggerMike]

We are wondering what Firstgenhunter meant when he posted…. “This is the start of something massive”

Yep. Thank you. I have no idea what Hunter399 is going on about.

Might be referring to the proposed closure of Bear and Cougar hunting starting April 2024. As well as Elk draw only. I've heard this referenced several times. I'd be interested if someone could lets us know the context surrounding this statement.

Is this proposal written/published somewhere? Is there a recording of anyone saying it? Not saying I don't believe they don't want that to happen because I do believe that but im curious if there's something actually real behind this statement or if it's just a complete rumor as of now.

[mcrawfordaf]

We are wondering what Firstgenhunter meant when he posted…. “This is the start of something massive”

Yep. Thank you. I have no idea what Hunter399 is going on about.

Might be referring to the proposed closure of Bear and Cougar hunting starting April 2024. As well as Elk draw only. I've heard this referenced several times. I'd be interested if someone could lets us know the context surrounding this statement.

Is this proposal written/published somewhere? Is there a recording of anyone saying it? Not saying I don't believe they don't want that to happen because I do believe that but im curious if there's something actually real behind this statement or if it's just a complete rumor as of now.

From what I understand the commission is trying to jam through predator hunting regulation over the next three years without taking the proper routes. There was back and forth via the commission and the WDFW, with WDFW warning the commission that they need to slow down and go through the correct channels for any changes they'd like to make. The recording can be found here to listen to for yourself: https://tvw.org/video/washington-fish-and-wildlife-commission-wildlife-committee-2023081060/?eventID=2023081060

[Ntbutcher]

We are wondering what Firstgenhunter meant when he posted…. “This is the start of something massive”

Yep. Thank you. I have no idea what Hunter399 is going on about.

Might be referring to the proposed closure of Bear and Cougar hunting starting April 2024. As well as Elk draw only. I've heard this referenced several times. I'd be interested if someone could lets us know the context surrounding this statement.

Is this proposal written/published somewhere? Is there a recording of anyone saying it? Not saying I don't believe they don't want that to happen because I do believe that but im curious if there's something actually real behind this statement or if it's just a complete rumor as of now.

From what I understand the commission is trying to jam through predator hunting regulation over the next three years without taking the proper routes. There was back and forth via the commission and the WDFW, with WDFW warning the commission that they need to slow down and go through the correct channels for any changes they'd like to make. The recording can be found here to listen to for yourself: https://tvw.org/video/washington-fish-and-wildlife-commission-wildlife-committee-2023081060/?eventID=2023081060

Seems pretty clear after watching that they are mapping out a path to cancel both species. Whether it be the "insufficient data/population counting", which is an unachievable goal and red herring. Or if that fails they will implement "social science" to achieve the same result. They've got multiple weapons to bludgeon us with.

[2MANY]

Vote in another liberal Gov. and don't forget to thank your parents for the last few folks .

The fun is just beginning!!!!!!

[Alan K]

For me with bears at least it's really simple.  Cougars likely the same.

Bear populations were sustainable (by the definition of still being around) for decades upon decades upon decades despite unlimited bag limits in western Washington, baiting allowed, trapping allowed, hounds allowed, even bounties for timber damage.  If those levels of harvest were not sustainable, bears wouldn't be here today. 

After 30 years of no highly effective means of take, even with the tiny fraction of depredation removals, how can anyone say with a straight face that bear populations are anything but as high as they've been in the last 75 years+...

It doesn't take a new study to put two and two together, and like others have said, a study isn't and shouldn't be necessary to continue with the status quo, only if it needs diverging from.

[Ntbutcher]

For me with bears at least it's really simple.  Cougars likely the same.

Bear populations were sustainable (by the definition of still being around) for decades upon decades upon decades despite unlimited bag limits in western Washington, baiting allowed, trapping allowed, hounds allowed, even bounties for timber damage.  If those levels of harvest were not sustainable, bears wouldn't be here today. 

After 30 years of no highly effective means of take, even with the tiny fraction of depredation removals, how can anyone say with a straight face that bear populations are anything but as high as they've been in the last 75 years+...

It doesn't take a new study to put two and two together, and like others have said, a study isn't and shouldn't be necessary to continue with the status quo, only if it needs diverging from.

I'm not sure if you watched the above link/commission meeting. But who is commissioner Myers? He seems to implicate otherwise with some unknown data set that implies we should have greatly reduced season or none at all maybe.

Maybe someone can speak to who he is and what his role is. And maybe the data he is alluding to.

[mcrawfordaf]

For me with bears at least it's really simple.  Cougars likely the same.

Bear populations were sustainable (by the definition of still being around) for decades upon decades upon decades despite unlimited bag limits in western Washington, baiting allowed, trapping allowed, hounds allowed, even bounties for timber damage.  If those levels of harvest were not sustainable, bears wouldn't be here today. 

After 30 years of no highly effective means of take, even with the tiny fraction of depredation removals, how can anyone say with a straight face that bear populations are anything but as high as they've been in the last 75 years+...

It doesn't take a new study to put two and two together, and like others have said, a study isn't and shouldn't be necessary to continue with the status quo, only if it needs diverging from.

One of the WDFW members said it more eloquently during the meeting but the Commission basically spit in the face of the last 10 years of WDFW's biologists and their work.

[baker5150]

For me with bears at least it's really simple.  Cougars likely the same.

Bear populations were sustainable (by the definition of still being around) for decades upon decades upon decades despite unlimited bag limits in western Washington, baiting allowed, trapping allowed, hounds allowed, even bounties for timber damage.  If those levels of harvest were not sustainable, bears wouldn't be here today. 

After 30 years of no highly effective means of take, even with the tiny fraction of depredation removals, how can anyone say with a straight face that bear populations are anything but as high as they've been in the last 75 years+...

It doesn't take a new study to put two and two together, and like others have said, a study isn't and shouldn't be necessary to continue with the status quo, only if it needs diverging from.

One of the WDFW members said it more eloquently during the meeting but the Commission basically spit in the face of the last 10 years of WDFW's biologists and their work.

Lehmkul spoke about this on the podcast.   They are asking for data and not getting it. 


This is what Lehmkul sent me when i asked him directly...

"I do trust the DFW staff and believe they are dedicated and top-notch. However, some commissioners, including me, felt that the science, data, and analysis were incomplete.  We asked for a fuller analysis of the all the issues in a comprehensive, standard form typical of such documents.  For example, I thought they did a very good job of detailing the Blue Mt elk situation; and, as a result I voted with the majority to approve their recommended 2-cougar bag limit for the area.  The whole commission voted in February 2021 for a full analysis of the spring bear issue; but, it was never done despite me and Commissioner McIsaac bringing it up several times during 2021.  I don’t know why the commission and staff did not follow through."

I don't want to trash on any Bio's either, but I'm in no way surprised when I hear of a Gov't employee not following thru on somthing.

[Special T]

For me with bears at least it's really simple.  Cougars likely the same.

Bear populations were sustainable (by the definition of still being around) for decades upon decades upon decades despite unlimited bag limits in western Washington, baiting allowed, trapping allowed, hounds allowed, even bounties for timber damage.  If those levels of harvest were not sustainable, bears wouldn't be here today. 

After 30 years of no highly effective means of take, even with the tiny fraction of depredation removals, how can anyone say with a straight face that bear populations are anything but as high as they've been in the last 75 years+...

It doesn't take a new study to put two and two together, and like others have said, a study isn't and shouldn't be necessary to continue with the status quo, only if it needs diverging from.

One of the WDFW members said it more eloquently during the meeting but the Commission basically spit in the face of the last 10 years of WDFW's biologists and their work.

Lehmkul spoke about this on the podcast.   They are asking for data and not getting it. 


This is what Lehmkul sent me when i asked him directly...

"I do trust the DFW staff and believe they are dedicated and top-notch. However, some commissioners, including me, felt that the science, data, and analysis were incomplete.  We asked for a fuller analysis of the all the issues in a comprehensive, standard form typical of such documents.  For example, I thought they did a very good job of detailing the Blue Mt elk situation; and, as a result I voted with the majority to approve their recommended 2-cougar bag limit for the area.  The whole commission voted in February 2021 for a full analysis of the spring bear issue; but, it was never done despite me and Commissioner McIsaac bringing it up several times during 2021.  I don’t know why the commission and staff did not follow through."

I don't want to trash on any Bio's either, but I'm in no way surprised when I hear of a Gov't employee not following thru on somthing.

They want to study everything to death. The commission often asks for information that is not available OR feasible to obtain either financially or time wise. I belive this is a tool used by them to force change that hurts sportsmen.