Free: Contests & Raffles.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall the original reason for the enviro's wanted them gone was because they were eating some plant life that was on the Endangered list. And beings that "sportsman" had them put there, they were/are not considered a "native species". Hence their original desire was for them(the goats) to be shot and left lay. That incurred out cry from people, so the alternative was to relocate them at taxpayers expense. The sportsman tried to get a permit hunt going BUT you know what can of worms that stirred up!!
Quote from: timberfaller on September 29, 2023, 02:35:43 PMCorrect me if I am wrong, but I recall the original reason for the enviro's wanted them gone was because they were eating some plant life that was on the Endangered list. And beings that "sportsman" had them put there, they were/are not considered a "native species". Hence their original desire was for them(the goats) to be shot and left lay. That incurred out cry from people, so the alternative was to relocate them at taxpayers expense. The sportsman tried to get a permit hunt going BUT you know what can of worms that stirred up!! Wasn't the enviros... https://www.nps.gov/olym/planyourvisit/mountain-goat-capture-and-translocation.htm has all the detail. National Parks are set up under the Preservationist model (think John Muir) and introduced species are not part of a preservationist Federal mandate for the NPS. This mandate was put in place by Teddy Roosevelt's administration,
Have a friend that did high Buck this year near this area they want to put Grizzly. He said the trail, and off trail areas he went had a lot of hikers. One group stopped and talked with him and asked what he was doing, he replied hunting Deer and Bear. What happened next is what is very concerning, they all asked "There are Bears up here?" The worst part I feel is the wasted tax dollars that will get used to "re-locate" Bears, because my opinion is, they will take problem Bears from Montana and Wyoming and release them here. More tax dollars will be wasted trying to educate the Bear, after it starts to eat livestock, then more will be wasted to bring in a government hunter and finally put it down. Then the cycle will start over.
Hell I’m all for it. I think releasing a few on Tiger Summit is a good idea as well. The woods have had an issue with an invasive species know as liberals for decades now. This might be just what we need for them to give the hunters some space and for them to see first hand how dumb their ideas are.
Quote from: timberfaller on September 29, 2023, 02:35:43 PMCorrect me if I am wrong, but I recall the original reason for the enviro's wanted them gone was because they were eating some plant life that was on the Endangered list. And beings that "sportsman" had them put there, they were/are not considered a "native species". Hence their original desire was for them(the goats) to be shot and left lay. That incurred out cry from people, so the alternative was to relocate them at taxpayers expense. The sportsman tried to get a permit hunt going BUT you know what can of worms that stirred up!!An introduced species decimating natural/native plant life. Special permit hunts came first. Didn’t work. Aerial net gunning to remove as many as possible and relocate by X date. Anything left beyond that were shot. Hunters/shooters applied to be teams of shooters to go into the goat areas and shoot as many as they could. They weren’t instructed to leave them lay. They were told they could bring the meat out if they wanted to, but they didn’t have to. They didn’t kill all of them and they’ll presumably repopulate themselves at some point in the future.
Quote from: jackelope on October 01, 2023, 08:06:32 PMQuote from: timberfaller on September 29, 2023, 02:35:43 PMCorrect me if I am wrong, but I recall the original reason for the enviro's wanted them gone was because they were eating some plant life that was on the Endangered list. And beings that "sportsman" had them put there, they were/are not considered a "native species". Hence their original desire was for them(the goats) to be shot and left lay. That incurred out cry from people, so the alternative was to relocate them at taxpayers expense. The sportsman tried to get a permit hunt going BUT you know what can of worms that stirred up!!An introduced species decimating natural/native plant life. Special permit hunts came first. Didn’t work. Aerial net gunning to remove as many as possible and relocate by X date. Anything left beyond that were shot. Hunters/shooters applied to be teams of shooters to go into the goat areas and shoot as many as they could. They weren’t instructed to leave them lay. They were told they could bring the meat out if they wanted to, but they didn’t have to. They didn’t kill all of them and they’ll presumably repopulate themselves at some point in the future.Now I could be wrong here but when I applied I though I remember them having a limit on how many animals could be removed (actually packed out). And that the area was so steep they warned/ discouraged removal of animals in most instances. Basically your job is to kill goats, we dont want you repelling down ridges or risking injury.There was also the issue of packing animals out in view of the public, ( they may have decided to close trails). What I also do remember was them being super strick on social media usage, posting pictures etc. I'm guessing this is why there very limited info on how the hunt actually went. Gag order of sorts
I submitted some comments from the "bear's" perspective, thinking maybe there might be an angle they haven't considered. They are plucking younger, loner bears from high density bear areas (like Yellowstone Ecosystem) and dropping them in the late summer/fall into a totally new habitat. How will they find food? The North Cascade isn't a super rich ecosystem, especially when talking protein on the hoof. What about all the documentaries on Yellowstone bears that tout the unique food sources that bears learn from their mothers (like moths in high mountains, and spawning cutthroat trout). These dropped in bears will be lost, hungry, disoriented and probably especially dangerous to humans. The EIS says they will be released near berries! What if there are no huckleberries that year--it happens all the time. Even the black bears get nasty and brave during bad berry years. The N. Cascades doesn't have the elk calves to chew on like Yellowstone. Transplanting grizzlies is just another Park Service Disaster (like Night of the Grizzlies) just waiting to happen. Check out book Engineering Eden that tell how park service zeal to make everything natural too quickly (by closing the garbage dumps when bears still relied on them for food) lead to the deaths of two people via separate bear mauling on the same night. Google it
