Wyoming feed stations are a breeding ground for disease/CWD. Thoughts?

[hoytxl2009]

https://wyofile.com/fewer-elk-sicker-elk-thats-what-the-experts-expect-if-wyoming-keeps-on-feeding/

Thoughts on this article? Makes sense, but I didn't know cwd was a big threat for elk in Wyoming currently. Seemed like those feed stations were crucial in some areas this year that had bad snowfall and late grass. This is first article of this sort that I have read concerning feed stations. Interesting read open for interpretation.

[Chesapeake]

Many states have curtailed baiting of deer for the same reason that congregating animals spreads disease.

Pretty well all of Wyoming has shown positive CWD results in deer, and more than half the state for elk.


https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Wildlife-in-Wyoming/More-Wildlife/Wildlife-Disease/Chronic-Wasting-Disease

[hunter399]

Kind of dang it if you feed.
Dang it if you don't.

Not sure what is worse,then always the chance you quit feeding.
Bad winter, starvation,and they get CWD anyway.
No right answer really.

[Hilltop123]

This will be a ballet measure in less than 10 years. Puget Sounders, will vote to quit the practice out of fear of spreading disease. This will help in driving down the number of ungulates. Hunting will have to be extremely limited, if not outright outlawed. So we have enough ungulates to feed the growing wolf and predator populations. JMTCW

[bearpaw]

There is a huge push to stop feeding elk and deer and to have more predators, it seems to go hand in hand with these new biologists the liberal colleges are turning out. Here's what I have observed.

In NE WA they used to feed deer when I was young, we had mule deer herds wintering out with hundreds of mule deer that could be counted every winter, they fed whitetails up at higher elevations to keep them off the valley floor where they get hit on the highway. The comment about the whitetail feeding is directly from the mouth of the WDFW employee who ran those whitetail feed stations! Today you will be lucky to see m0re than a couple dozen mule deer in the same areas even if you cover a lot more ground looking. Every time we lose whitetails to hard winter or blue tongue they never recover to their previous high most likely due to the high number of predators, dogs chasing them, and traffic losses.

Last winter where I live in Idaho, IDFG paid the next door farmer to feed elk all winter, to keep them from  raiding farmer haystacks, the elk literally laid in the field all winter in a herd, why would they leave when the snow is three feet deep? I did not see one single elk that died in that field from eating alfalfa. IDFG had 23 deer feeding stations in our area, and this fall when we hunted, the units with the most feeding stations had the best deer hunting. The unit that had the fewest feeding stations last winter had the fewest deer this fall.

At least the deer and elk that got fed survived! I can't say that for a good portion of the herds that weren't fed! We had a lot better fall season than I ever expected and I feel 100% it's because IDFG has a feeding program!

[baldopepper]

Seems to be kind of caught between a hard spot and a rock situation.  No doubt feeding is a good thing during a hard winter, but if it contributes to the spread of cwd its a bad thing. As I think someone else said, it's damned if you do and damned if you dont. I do know that cwd is a wicked thing, an outbreak of it can wipe out a herd over the course of a few short years.  Hard decision, do you not feed and they winter kill or do you feed and risk a cwd outbreak. Don't know which way I lean.
 

[bearpaw]

I don't think its too complicated unless you know you have cwd in a local herd, if there is no known cases of cwd in a local herd I really don't see how that is a concern? The herd of elk I watched in the neighbor's field all winter here in Idaho is a prime example. Jackson hole is another great example, the elk number in the thousands, all herded up, I've taken the horse sled ride out through those elk, those elk have been herding up for decades just north of town. Another good example is Hardware Ranch in Utah, I've done that sleigh ride too, it's pretty cool, a few hundred elk all being fed in one big herd!

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hardware-visit.html

[bearpaw]

Now that we know there is CWD in Unit 11 or whichever unit in Idaho, it would make sense to not have a large scale feeding operation there. I understand there is cwd in areas of WY, and can further understand not wanting to feed in those areas. But honestly, I think some bio's are using the cwd argument to push their personal belief to stop all feeding. And even more importantly we all need to understand that a lot of these biologists do not even believe in hunting, they will use whatever means to push various goals (more predators, stop winter feeding, eliminate hunting seasons, etc)  to achieve their anti-hunting agenda, they will push these goals down the throats of the "well meaning but unsuspecting" hunting public if you allow them to!

[BeerBugler]

This is an incredibly stupid argument. Feeding or no feeding, during a severe winter, animals congregate. If they are not fed, they congregate and most die and a few survive. If they are fed, they congregate and most live and some die (mostly due to predation). IDFG did not feed in my area, all the deer were at the bottom of a canyon and 70-80% of them died there.I completely understand not feeding during a “normal “ winter but during severe winters or even “rough” winters the short term and long term populations benefit from feeding. Like all things there are pros and cons but feeding makes more sense than not feeding.

[hoytxl2009]

I definitely favor the side of the feed station. I'm yet to read a article where elk die in masses due to disease at one of these loactions. The Jackson refuge was established in 1912 and I'm yet to read a single bad thing about it as well.

[baldopepper]

I definitely favor the side of the feed station. I'm yet to read a article where elk die in masses due to disease at one of these loactions. The Jackson refuge was established in 1912 and I'm yet to read a single bad thing about it as well.

Not necessarily disputing the need for feeding, but with cwd animals don't disappear in masses like you'll see in a winter kill.area.  it's very insidious,  you just start seeing a sick one here and there, often with others that look healthy, and then after a a couple years you just don't see any in that area.  As I've stated in other posts, it pretty much wiped out the area we hunted for years in Utah. It's kind of a silent killer and would be devastating if it broke out in our already stressed herds.

[hoytxl2009]

I definitely favor the side of the feed station. I'm yet to read a article where elk die in masses due to disease at one of these loactions. The Jackson refuge was established in 1912 and I'm yet to read a single bad thing about it as well.

Not necessarily disputing the need for feeding, but with cwd animals don't disappear in masses like you'll see in a winter kill.area.  it's very insidious,  you just start seeing a sick one here and there, often with others that look healthy, and then after a a couple years you just don't see any in that area.  As I've stated in other posts, it pretty much wiped out the area we hunted for years in Utah. It's kind of a silent killer and would be devastating if it broke out in our already stressed herds.

What area of Utah did that happen? I happened to draw the Manti tag this last September and had a blast down there.

[baldopepper]

I definitely favor the side of the feed station. I'm yet to read a article where elk die in masses due to disease at one of these loactions. The Jackson refuge was established in 1912 and I'm yet to read a single bad thing about it as well.

Not necessarily disputing the need for feeding, but with cwd animals don't disappear in masses like you'll see in a winter kill.area.  it's very insidious,  you just start seeing a sick one here and there, often with others that look healthy, and then after a a couple years you just don't see any in that area.  As I've stated in other posts, it pretty much wiped out the area we hunted for years in Utah. It's kind of a silent killer and would be devastating if it broke out in our already stressed herds.

What area of Utah did that happen? I happened to draw the Manti tag this last September and had a blast down there.
 

We were further.south in the LaSalles.  Was a big checking.station just south of price, they didn't really make a huge deal of it but last time we went thru the bio there said the had a very high percentage of positives the previous year and very much lower hunter success rate for this year..We literally saw no.deer in the area where we used to see100+ a day.

[bearpaw]

I definitely favor the side of the feed station. I'm yet to read a article where elk die in masses due to disease at one of these loactions. The Jackson refuge was established in 1912 and I'm yet to read a single bad thing about it as well.

Not necessarily disputing the need for feeding, but with cwd animals don't disappear in masses like you'll see in a winter kill.area.  it's very insidious,  you just start seeing a sick one here and there, often with others that look healthy, and then after a a couple years you just don't see any in that area.  As I've stated in other posts, it pretty much wiped out the area we hunted for years in Utah. It's kind of a silent killer and would be devastating if it broke out in our already stressed herds.

What area of Utah did that happen? I happened to draw the Manti tag this last September and had a blast down there.
 

We were further.south in the LaSalles.  Was a big checking.station just south of price, they didn't really make a huge deal of it but last time we went thru the bio there said the had a very high percentage of positives the previous year and very much lower hunter success rate for this year..We literally saw no.deer in the area where we used to see100+ a day.

Did this occur due to winter feeding? Do they do any winter feeding in that area? I'm asking because I've never heard of winter feeding in that area and suspect the disease spread by other means?

Wisconsin had a lot of CWD but they still have lots of deer as compared to most states. I can't say if they do winter feeding or if the disease spread by other means. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think there is an conclusive data linking winter feeding to big cwd infections? I think some biologists are using the cwd argument to stop winter feeding because they don't agree with winter feeding.

[baldopepper]

No. There is no winter feeding in that area. I'm  not aware of any winter feeding.in the state specifically aimed at deer.  Nothing like the Hardware Ranch in the area I'm aware of.Dont get me wrong, I'm not against winter feeding, but would like further research to see if their is a correlation to higher incidences of cwd.  Not sure many really realize how nasty that stuff is. We didn't until we saw the effect.

[callturner]

I was told recently that towards the end of the archery season this year in Wisconsin that they outlawed baiting for three years for deer. This was due to as CWD infection. I'm not sure if they're doing a study on it or what.

[bearpaw]

I was told recently that towards the end of the archery season this year in Wisconsin that they outlawed baiting for three years for deer. This was due to as CWD infection. I'm not sure if they're doing a study on it or what.

Four counties for a specific reason:

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/newsroom/release/83531#:~:text=Barron%2C%20Rusk%20and%20Sawyer%20counties%20will%20all%20begin%20a%20two,5%2C%202023.

[sjhgraysage]

I am currently looking at the webcams for the Elk Refuge at Jackson WY. There is no snow at the moment down on the valley floor, and I don't believe that they have started to feed the elk yet as there is no reason to. Even still there are elk on the refuge and they are hanging out together like elk do in herds.
I don't see how not feeding would keep the elk from herding up? That is what elk do. At the family ranch in grant county the deer get together in groups during the winter even though they are not being fed by humans, more eyes are safer than one deer alone with all the predators around, probably why they hang out together.

[CarbonHunter]

Looks like the elk are starting to drop in feeding stations this winter in Wyoming due to CWD. Have any of you changed your opinions over the last year on this topic?

https://www.gohunt.com/browse/news-and-updates/hunting-news/chronic-wasting-disease-spreads-among-elk-at-wyoming-feedground

[hunter399]

You all know Colorado is ground zero ,where CWD first came to be.

[zwickeyman]

There is a huge push to stop feeding elk and deer and to have more predators, it seems to go hand in hand with these new biologists the liberal colleges are turning out. Here's what I have observed.

In NE WA they used to feed deer when I was young, we had mule deer herds wintering out with hundreds of mule deer that could be counted every winter, they fed whitetails up at higher elevations to keep them off the valley floor where they get hit on the highway. The comment about the whitetail feeding is directly from the mouth of the WDFW employee who ran those whitetail feed stations! Today you will be lucky to see m0re than a couple dozen mule deer in the same areas even if you cover a lot more ground looking. Every time we lose whitetails to hard winter or blue tongue they never recover to their previous high most likely due to the high number of predators, dogs chasing them, and traffic losses.

Last winter where I live in Idaho, IDFG paid the next door farmer to feed elk all winter, to keep them from  raiding farmer haystacks, the elk literally laid in the field all winter in a herd, why would they leave when the snow is three feet deep? I did not see one single elk that died in that field from eating alfalfa. IDFG had 23 deer feeding stations in our area, and this fall when we hunted, the units with the most feeding stations had the best deer hunting. The unit that had the fewest feeding stations last winter had the fewest deer this fall.

At least the deer and elk that got fed survived! I can't say that for a good portion of the herds that weren't fed! We had a lot better fall season than I ever expected and I feel 100% it's because IDFG has a feeding program!

This has been brought to the table by anti hunters. Let that sink in

[CarbonHunter]

I don’t see this as being a political issue but instead something that is real and needs to be addressed if we want healthy deer and elk herds. I also don’t believe we will be able to kill our way out of this by culling infected herds.

If there are CWD prions on the feeding ground they are going to need to find different grounds to feed them right?  Would it be wise here in Washington to spread the feed grounds out? Instead of feeding 4,000 elk in one location should we feed 400 elk in 10 locations?

[Stein]

I am currently looking at the webcams for the Elk Refuge at Jackson WY. There is no snow at the moment down on the valley floor, and I don't believe that they have started to feed the elk yet as there is no reason to. Even still there are elk on the refuge and they are hanging out together like elk do in herds.
I don't see how not feeding would keep the elk from herding up? That is what elk do. At the family ranch in grant county the deer get together in groups during the winter even though they are not being fed by humans, more eyes are safer than one deer alone with all the predators around, probably why they hang out together.

I believe they start feeding after they eat out the local forage or at some percentage.  I talked to the guy running it when I had a bison tag a few years back and I seem to remember him having a number he calculated almost every day.

If they are infected and bunched up, I don't know what difference it makes if they are bunched on the refuge or the nearest hay field.  At this point it's probably likely there are prions on summer and winter range.  There are truly insane amounts of elk just at that one location, it's beyond amazing to be able to go walking around in there during the winter.

[hunter399]

I don’t see this as being a political issue but instead something that is real and needs to be addressed if we want healthy deer and elk herds. I also don’t believe we will be able to kill our way out of this by culling infected herds.

If there are CWD prions on the feeding ground they are going to need to find different grounds to feed them right?  Would it be wise here in Washington to spread the feed grounds out? Instead of feeding 4,000 elk in one location should we feed 400 elk in 10 locations?

I think what your saying is wdfw needs to stop making laws for citizens,then putting in provisions that make it legal for them to break said laws.

Here in the NE
We have wolves and are over stocked with predators.
They only kill the sick ones (supposedly) .
So we are good to go to bait,it's a natural eco-cleansing.
Lol.......😂


To answer your question...
No ,ten locations would not work. The answer is if baiting is banned statewide,then it's banned for everyone. Including feeding station.

Another FYI.
Wolves can smell CWD ,can also spread it from there own scat.

[bearpaw]

Looks like the elk are starting to drop in feeding stations this winter in Wyoming due to CWD. Have any of you changed your opinions over the last year on this topic?

https://www.gohunt.com/browse/news-and-updates/hunting-news/chronic-wasting-disease-spreads-among-elk-at-wyoming-feedground

Elk move into large groups during the winter, you can't stop that. I sill believe feeding is a viable alternative to simply letting elk or deer die due to starvation. I can't say for sure how feeding is conducted in some states, but in Idaho feeding is only initiated when natural foraging becomes too hard due to intense winter conditions, some years like this year, we had no feeding, it was a mild winter, but the elk are still in large herds in the valleys.

A couple weeks ago a train hit a herd and the local warden had to remove 9 head of dead elk, fortunately he was able salvage most of them for consumption. We have a herd that showed up late winter and has been hanging out day and night about a half mile from my house in a big field, about 50 to 100 in that group.

It certainly makes sense to me that if animals are dieing to get them picked up immediately and potentially move a feeding site or the herd even if they aren't being fed, if the ground is considered contaminated. But if the elk are hanging out in a field on their own you may have to bait another area close by or chase them with a chopper to get them to move. Even If you move a naturally formed herd or a herd at a feed site, the animals will still group up in herds and stay in small areas, that's just how elk get through the winter.

I really question if CWD hasn't been around for centuries and it just wasn't realized what it was until recently? Hopefully there is research being done to find an answer for treating or preventing CWD.

[bearpaw]

There is a huge push to stop feeding elk and deer and to have more predators, it seems to go hand in hand with these new biologists the liberal colleges are turning out. Here's what I have observed.

In NE WA they used to feed deer when I was young, we had mule deer herds wintering out with hundreds of mule deer that could be counted every winter, they fed whitetails up at higher elevations to keep them off the valley floor where they get hit on the highway. The comment about the whitetail feeding is directly from the mouth of the WDFW employee who ran those whitetail feed stations! Today you will be lucky to see m0re than a couple dozen mule deer in the same areas even if you cover a lot more ground looking. Every time we lose whitetails to hard winter or blue tongue they never recover to their previous high most likely due to the high number of predators, dogs chasing them, and traffic losses.

Last winter where I live in Idaho, IDFG paid the next door farmer to feed elk all winter, to keep them from  raiding farmer haystacks, the elk literally laid in the field all winter in a herd, why would they leave when the snow is three feet deep? I did not see one single elk that died in that field from eating alfalfa. IDFG had 23 deer feeding stations in our area, and this fall when we hunted, the units with the most feeding stations had the best deer hunting. The unit that had the fewest feeding stations last winter had the fewest deer this fall.

At least the deer and elk that got fed survived! I can't say that for a good portion of the herds that weren't fed! We had a lot better fall season than I ever expected and I feel 100% it's because IDFG has a feeding program!

This has been brought to the table by anti hunters. Let that sink in

  Exactly, anti-hunters want to stop anything they feel is unnatural or that may benefit hunters, even if that action is harmful to wildlife.

[huntnnw]

they stop feeding the elk and nothing will change on the cwd front... those elk will just move to the farmers hay barns and congregate there

[Feathernfurr]

I’d bet an entire paycheck that most anti hunters don’t have a clue that feed stations exist throughout the west, and that CWD exists. I’m all for calling a spade a spade but I’m not sure the argument over feed lots and supplemental feeding comes from anti hunters.

Maybe a push to stop baiting, sure. Honestly this is the only state I’ve ever hunted that it was legal to bait ungulates. I’ve always thought it was pretty silly and could care less if it disappeared from most states.Baiting bears is a different story.

[Tbar]

I’d bet an entire paycheck that most anti hunters don’t have a clue that feed stations exist throughout the west, and that CWD exists. I’m all for calling a spade a spade but I’m not sure the argument over feed lots and supplemental feeding comes from anti hunters.

Maybe a push to stop baiting, sure. Honestly this is the only state I’ve ever hunted that it was legal to bait ungulates. I’ve always thought it was pretty silly and could care less if it disappeared from most states.Baiting bears is a different story.

It's wrong to conflate these issues.  Hunters can and do lead on this topic. In addition there are many solid reasons why baiting(ungulates) in general is not good. Right now 22 states ban it and 14 more have cwd related restrictions.  This isn't an anti agenda.

[zwickeyman]

I’d bet an entire paycheck that most anti hunters don’t have a clue that feed stations exist throughout the west, and that CWD exists. I’m all for calling a spade a spade but I’m not sure the argument over feed lots and supplemental feeding comes from anti hunters.

Maybe a push to stop baiting, sure. Honestly this is the only state I’ve ever hunted that it was legal to bait ungulates. I’ve always thought it was pretty silly and could care less if it disappeared from most states.Baiting bears is a different story.

Just a for instance. It’s anti hunting groups that are pushing to stop feeding the Elk at the Jackson Hole Wikdlife Refuge. 100 % Fact

[Tbar]

I’d bet an entire paycheck that most anti hunters don’t have a clue that feed stations exist throughout the west, and that CWD exists. I’m all for calling a spade a spade but I’m not sure the argument over feed lots and supplemental feeding comes from anti hunters.

Maybe a push to stop baiting, sure. Honestly this is the only state I’ve ever hunted that it was legal to bait ungulates. I’ve always thought it was pretty silly and could care less if it disappeared from most states.Baiting bears is a different story.

Just a for instance. It’s anti hunting groups that are pushing to stop feeding the Elk at the Jackson Hole Wikdlife Refuge. 100 % Fact

Based on the spread of CWD and environmental health or anti hunting? It's an important distinction.

[Stein]

I don't think it's binary.  For sure, disease spread is an issue with feeding, no way around that one.  It's also artificially boosting herd size, many of the groups that would oppose feeding also want to see nature handle most things as opposed to human management.  Likewise, many of them are likely anti-hunting at least to some degree.

For CWD, honestly I don't think it changes the end game much.  It will likely shift the impact earlier in time, but CWD is such a nasty creature that it's going to get everywhere eventually.

[Tbar]

I don't think it's binary.  For sure, disease spread is an issue with feeding, no way around that one.  It's also artificially boosting herd size, many of the groups that would oppose feeding also want to see nature handle most things as opposed to human management.  Likewise, many of them are likely anti-hunting at least to some degree.

For CWD, honestly I don't think it changes the end game much.  It will likely shift the impact earlier in time, but CWD is such a nasty creature that it's going to get everywhere eventually.

I look at it a little different, especially in Washington but I believe the dynamics are similar.  The critical habitat is prioritized for agriculture therfore putting the viability of many herds at risk.  So without supplemental feeding some of these herds would cease. 

[Stein]

For sure, I seem to remember something like a 39% reduction if feeding stops.

[Feathernfurr]

Unfortunately I think that’s the biggest problem that hunting is facing in the westerns states. Too many people and too much new infrastructure competing for space with animals. Often times I like to wonder what places some of these winter ranges looked like 150 years ago. I imagine it was incredible to see.

I’m sure there is a solution somewhere that is best for both animals and people, but I don’t suppose it’ll make anyone happy. More designated wilderness encompassing winter range would satisfy me. But I know that would cost a lot of people their livelihood unless they were compensated fairly. That doesn’t make of for the loss of what may be generational land and heritage though.

[Stein]

Probably looked something like this, pic from inside the refuge during my hunt.  When I took this pic I could see 7 different herds just from my vantage point.

[Feathernfurr]

I was lucky enough to live very close by and spend at lot of time at the refuge for ~ a decade. It’s a pretty amazing place.

[link]

Unfortunately I think that’s the biggest problem that hunting is facing in the westerns states. Too many people and too much new infrastructure competing for space with animals. Often times I like to wonder what places some of these winter ranges looked like 150 years ago. I imagine it was incredible to see.

I’m sure there is a solution somewhere that is best for both animals and people, but I don’t suppose it’ll make anyone happy. More designated wilderness encompassing winter range would satisfy me. But I know that would cost a lot of people their livelihood unless they were compensated fairly. That doesn’t make of for the loss of what may be generational land and heritage though.

Elk were pretty close to being wiped out 150 year ago. Winter ranges in the late 1800's probably was incredible to see.

[Feathernfurr]

I mean I was just using a rough number for conversation sake. Obviously I meant pre-settlement and market hunting lol.

[Twispriver]

I've wondered about that as well. Not just winter feeding, I'm also curious what the herds were like before agriculture and logging provided additional food sources and before bounty hunting and trapping reduced predator numbers. Were there more deer and elk? Less? Or about the same as now.

[bearpaw]

I've wondered about that as well. Not just winter feeding, I'm also curious what the herds were like before agriculture and logging provided additional food sources and before bounty hunting and trapping reduced predator numbers. Were there more deer and elk? Less? Or about the same as now.

According to the records of Lewis and Clark's expedition, game was very scarce in the Rocky Mountians, they nearly starved to death.

[Sunbkpk]

Probably looked something like this, pic from inside the refuge during my hunt.  When I took this pic I could see 7 different herds just from my vantage point.

I remember in the 70's, seeing multiple herds like that on the hillside from Oak Creek feeding station up to Nile. Not like that for decades.

[CarbonHunter]

Back in the Lewis and Clark days there was little reason for the animals to migrate high into the mountains. They could literally spend the entire year on the winter range so long as the feed was there and fire didn’t push them off of it.

I’ve noticed that we are starting to see a bit of a return to this behavior as the housing developments replace the farmland that used to be in the winter ranges. Now that they are not being hunted in some of these areas there is no reason for them to move off of the winter ranges and the year around watering ensures plenty of feed. Lots of towns with year around elk heard that never used to be.

[GOcougsHunter]

Back in the Lewis and Clark days there was little reason for the animals to migrate high into the mountains. They could literally spend the entire year on the winter range so long as the feed was there and fire didn’t push them off of it.

I’ve noticed that we are starting to see a bit of a return to this behavior as the housing developments replace the farmland that used to be in the winter ranges. Now that they are not being hunted in some of these areas there is no reason for them to move off of the winter ranges and the year around watering ensures plenty of feed. Lots of towns with year around elk heard that never used to be.

yup.  drive through North Bend.  Parking medians are a good rumenating spot, apparently.

[bearpaw]

Back in the Lewis and Clark days there was little reason for the animals to migrate high into the mountains. They could literally spend the entire year on the winter range so long as the feed was there and fire didn’t push them off of it.

I’ve noticed that we are starting to see a bit of a return to this behavior as the housing developments replace the farmland that used to be in the winter ranges. Now that they are not being hunted in some of these areas there is no reason for them to move off of the winter ranges and the year around watering ensures plenty of feed. Lots of towns with year around elk heard that never used to be.

yup.  drive through North Bend.  Parking medians are a good rumenating spot, apparently.

A big part of that is escaping wolves and cougars by staying closer to humans and farming/ranching.

[CarbonHunter]

Back in the Lewis and Clark days there was little reason for the animals to migrate high into the mountains. They could literally spend the entire year on the winter range so long as the feed was there and fire didn’t push them off of it.

I’ve noticed that we are starting to see a bit of a return to this behavior as the housing developments replace the farmland that used to be in the winter ranges. Now that they are not being hunted in some of these areas there is no reason for them to move off of the winter ranges and the year around watering ensures plenty of feed. Lots of towns with year around elk heard that never used to be.

yup.  drive through North Bend.  Parking medians are a good rumenating spot, apparently.

A big part of that is escaping wolves and cougars by staying closer to humans and farming/ranching.

I know that has been the case in Idaho and Montana and is probably part of the issue on the east side but on the west side the predators are right down in the development areas and we don’t have many wolves yet. We see a significant amount of hunting pressure in the public woods and I think that has a lot to do with them staying where it is safe. Years ago they would get hunted in the areas around Buckley, Enumclaw, Lake Tapps and Orting but now that there is little to no hunting in those areas the elk just stay there year round.