February 12, 2024 Special Wildlife Committee Meeting agenda WDFS Bear & Cougar

[Skyvalhunter]

So no decision was made on the Cougar and Bear season then?

[hunter399]

Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

[hughjorgan]

So no decision was made on the Cougar and Bear season then?

They kicked the can down the road to their march meeting

[hughjorgan]

Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…

[hunter399]

Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…

I want the department to identify it.
Not the petition.

I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.

I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.

Cougar season and structure is different than most game animals.
You have ......
Overall harvest,which includes everything.
Hunter harvest
Depredations/lethal removal
Other ,which I don't even know what "other" is.

Then within this structure.
You have .....
Public safety/livestock attacks
Very strong base population/weak base population based on PMU.
Then Hunter opportunity/conservation of cougars.

It's really complex compared to other game animals.
I do agree the petition does outline the "overharvest"
You are correct,based on WDFW percent of the population.

[hughjorgan]

The whole petition is based off the department numbers and the petitions interpretation that we are over harvesting based on WDFWs data.

[hughjorgan]

Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…

I want the department to identify it.
Not the petition.

I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.

I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.

From what I heard the biologists say in the Monday committee meeting they set the guidelines at 12-16 percent of cougars population based off the cougar total population which is estimated at 3600 with current estimates. They built in a buffer of about 9 percent for poaching, roadkill, depredation, etc. The bio said you can harvest 25 percent with out hurting the population. A quick number crunch shows we aren’t over that limit.

[hunter399]

Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…

I want the department to identify it.
Not the petition.

I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.

I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.

From what I heard the biologists say in the Monday committee meeting they set the guidelines at 12-16 percent of cougars population based off the cougar total population which is estimated at 3600 with current estimates. They built in a buffer of about 9 percent for poaching, roadkill, depredation, etc. The bio said you can harvest 25 percent with out hurting the population. A quick number crunch shows we aren’t over that limit.

That does sound correct to me.
I agree.
Idaho cougar harvest easily doubled ours ,yet are still sustainable.
Idaho can also target male cats with hounds,which we can not.

I guess what I'm trying to say is.

PMU that fall under high depredations,that also have a high base population, strong habitat.
I really don't see the need for rule changes,since hunter harvest, depredations are flatline on a graph. I believe the season structure should be based on a PMU , Objective,needs,goals.
Population based percentage should be applied based on PMU.

But will say it will be interesting,to hear about this new science data.
How it will effect hunting seasons.
I do feel the commission made the right decision to wait for department science.
Going forward with that is best I think.

[Rainier10]

Lorna isn’t getting her way yet and is stomping her foot.

Please… cougars aren’t in danger in any PMU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As of today almost all units are still open for cougar.

[Skyvalhunter]

Holy cow I have never heard so much running around on this Cougar and Bear topic. Of all the commissioners Smith opens her mouth the most and you can tell the direction she wants. She sounds like she has trouble even getting a breath in. If they would just listen to their biologists. I am encourage to hear that Lindville reads the emails sent to the commission and that Commissioner Anderson stated the commission supports hunting. Smith also seems to want to bring in her so called experts to support her agenda.

[hunter399]

I'm to the point with the commission.
That if the department recommends it,then let's go that direction.
I'm just gonna agree with the department, really wish the commission will go that direction as well.
Department recommendations are best science available.
Let's try and make the best decision with conservation/Hunter opportunity, sustainable base population in mind.

Ya , whatever the department recommends.
I'm just gonna swallow it,and agree.

[dwils233]

But will say it will be interesting,to hear about this new science data.
How it will effect hunting seasons.
I do feel the commission made the right decision to wait for department science.
Going forward with that is best I think.

Here's the thing though- they literally were asked to not accept this petition and just wait a couple months for pending science to inform their work and then integrate it into the GMP. Almost every org that weighed in against the petition said that; just wait and do it in the timline you've already got that will have new department data.

But they said screw that, accepted the petition and rushed in head first, because they wanted to do it NOW. Screwed up staff workloads, ignored potential new data outcomes, just wanted to barrel ahead with starting rulemaking.

Then they found out the time constraints to get it done by 2024 AND figured out that department science might be important to support their desired changes.

And now they are back to where plenty of hunters and orgs told them to be a few months ago: slow the eff down, follow the order of operations, and stop sidelining pending research.

They'll still going to use it to try and screw opportunity, but at least they could go through the damn motions right first

[TriggerMike]

Wow, Susewind just publicly called out the entire commission on trying to change the cougar seasons against the departments recommendations. Respect!

[Scruffy]

I only seen the last hour of the meeting but why do I feel like I was raped.  They said there was a lot of work to be done to understand the science but they couldn't leave this year alone and take time to digest the science and come up with a plan.  Now they can close the season before it starts if too many conflict cougars are killed.  If they do that are they going to refund me the price of my tag.  And they cut the season by a month. What a disorganized bunch, they couldn't agree on the weather.

[hunter399]

I only seen the last hour of the meeting but why do I feel like I was raped.  They said there was a lot of work to be done to understand the science but they couldn't leave this year alone and take time to digest the science and come up with a plan.  Now they can close the season before it starts if too many conflict cougars are killed.  If they do that are they going to refund me the price of my tag.  And they cut the season by a month. What a disorganized bunch, they couldn't agree on the weather.

I feel like that now, raped.
Just bought a cougar tag with a huge question mark for fall season.
Roll the dice I guess.