inheriting bonus points

[lhrbull]

Since we buy them from the state why shouldn't we be able to give them to a direct descendant so we don't die or get to use them.

[HillHound]

It’s been argued many times. It seems that they claim points have no value and what they’re selling you is the chance that year to draw a tag. If you could we would probably have predatory points buyers just like the sleazebag real estate agent that’s been calling and stopping by my dad’s place trying to see if he’s hard up for money yet and he can get his land. Maybe points could only be given to a spouse or direct descendant to avoid this

[idahohuntr]

Points schemes were a bad idea. Anything that allows for sale or transfer of points is a bad idea on steroids.

Your points are 'used' each year you apply.  They are not personal property and they do not entitle you to anything...they gave you extra chances to draw, so in effect you got your use out of them. 

[High Climber]

Points schemes were a bad idea. Anything that allows for sale or transfer of points is a bad idea on steroids.

Your points are 'used' each year you apply.  They are not personal property and they do not entitle you to anything...they gave you extra chances to draw, so in effect you got your use out of them.

That’s a good way to put it 

[lhrbull]

They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendent

[vandeman17]

Slippery slope for sure. I get the arguement but its a really bad idea, almost as bad as the point system itself. The draw is a lottery, plain and simple. Passing your points along to someone else will never happen

[idahohuntr]

They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendent

The short answer: its not legal/permissible to transfer points.  That's why you can't pass them to a descendent (or anyone else). 

[addicted1]

This would make the system even more broken. The point system is trash.

[HikerHunter]

They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendent

I think of them as a personalized coupon (do they still have them?). Only you can use them in the draw for a specific item/hunt, otherwise the cash value is 1/100th of 1 cent.

[HikerHunter]

And I am against the idea for a host of reasons.

[Farmer72]

They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendent

I think of them as a personalized coupon (do they still have them?). Only you can use them in the draw for a specific item/hunt, otherwise the cash value is 1/100th of 1 cent.

So I should be able to collect 100 pts and be able to trade them in for the penny.

I agree it is a bad idea to make them inheritable/transferable. Sucks to just let them go but it is what it is. Besides I don't want hear someone complaining they have 60 points and someone with 3 points got drawn. Be nice if people just forgot about the points and realize it is just a random draw and either you are lucky that year or you are not.

Just my opinion.

[bearpaw]

If points could be inherited there are so many people currently with 20+ points for tough to draw species that it could easily get to where there is no real chance for a person to draw in their lifetime unless they had inherited points from previous generations of hunters! And future hunters who inherited points from multiple sources would have by far the best odds. If that was the case then why would future generations of hunters even apply if there were other people with so many inherited points? The system would likely totally implode at that point!

[LDennis24]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

[vandeman17]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

Those are preference not bonus points

[bearpaw]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

If point systems were any good there wouldn't be all sorts of people wanting to try various scenarios, the best thing would be if points systems were scrapped, but that isn't going to happen either because too many people think they will probably draw soon because of all their points they have accumulated.

The reality is there are loads of hunters sitting on 20+ points!

[idahohuntr]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

Why?  Because demand far exceeds supply and if we are putting together criteria to hand out rare tags I don't think spending 5 seconds hitting submit and paying $10 for several consecutive years entitles you to anything. If we want to identify groups/criteria that should get priority, we'll run out of tags before we get through the list of much more deserving individuals (e.g., gold star family members, disabled vets, etc.). 

[idahohuntr]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

If point systems were any good there wouldn't be all sorts of people wanting to try various scenarios, the best thing would be if points systems were scrapped, but that isn't going to happen either because too many people think they will probably draw soon because of all their points they have accumulated.

The reality is there are loads of hunters sitting on 20+ points!

@huntnphool had about the only realistic idea I've heard for how to wean a state off points...but even that would be a tough sell.

[LDennis24]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

Why?  Because demand far exceeds supply and if we are putting together criteria to hand out rare tags I don't think spending 5 seconds hitting submit and paying $10 for several consecutive years entitles you to anything. If we want to identify groups/criteria that should get priority, we'll run out of tags before we get through the list of much more deserving individuals (e.g., gold star family members, disabled vets, etc.).

I'm talking about preference points only, not people who have more money to spend than others. They can have their own pool too. If you put only the people who have 20yrs worth of points into their own pool their chances increase drastically. 

[idahohuntr]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

Why?  Because demand far exceeds supply and if we are putting together criteria to hand out rare tags I don't think spending 5 seconds hitting submit and paying $10 for several consecutive years entitles you to anything. If we want to identify groups/criteria that should get priority, we'll run out of tags before we get through the list of much more deserving individuals (e.g., gold star family members, disabled vets, etc.).

I'm talking about preference points only, not people who have more money to spend than others. They can have their own pool too. If you put only the people who have 20yrs worth of points into their own pool their chances increase drastically. 

I understand what you are saying...and I'm saying the people with 20+ points don't deserve their own special/entitled portion of the state's wildlife.  They already benefit from the advantage of higher odds relative to lower point holders.

[addicted1]

They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.

[HikerHunter]

They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.

Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.

[bobcat]

They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.

Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.

It's the average points of the previous year, of the people who drew. It means NOTHING, especially for those hunts with very few permits. Think of hunts that have only 1 permit, and it happens to be drawn by someone with 1 point. So the average to draw that hunt is 1 point.  🙄

[trophyhunt]

I wish they would let us pick how many points we want to use for each hunt we apply for.  Apply for hunt, how many points do you wish to use?

[chukar58]

Speaking of “Average Points”,  I think the number published is the average number of points that people had last year that applied and not the point average to draw.  That’s a big difference and WDFW would like you to believe you can draw with the average published.

[HikerHunter]

They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.

Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.

It's the average points of the previous year, of the people who drew. It means NOTHING, especially for those hunts with very few permits. Think of hunts that have only 1 permit, and it happens to be drawn by someone with 1 point. So the average to draw that hunt is 1 point.  🙄

Take no offense, but I didn't believe you, so I just checked with a buddy that drew a single tag a few years back and sure enough the next year was his number of points. In fact, if you look at the hunts with a single or just a couple permits, the average points sometimes swings wildly each year.

All that said, I agree with Bobcat, the average points is useless. Actually its misleading at its best!

[Bob33]

They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.

Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.

It's the average points of the previous year, of the people who drew. It means NOTHING, especially for those hunts with very few permits. Think of hunts that have only 1 permit, and it happens to be drawn by someone with 1 point. So the average to draw that hunt is 1 point.  🙄

Take no offense, but I didn't believe you, so I just checked with a buddy that drew a single tag a few years back and sure enough the next year was his number of points. In fact, if you look at the hunts with a single or just a couple permits, the average points sometimes swings wildly each year.

All that said, I agree with Bobcat, the average points is useless. Actually its misleading at its best!

One might even think it's intentional, to sell more applications.

[huntnphool]

If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?

If point systems were any good there wouldn't be all sorts of people wanting to try various scenarios, the best thing would be if points systems were scrapped, but that isn't going to happen either because too many people think they will probably draw soon because of all their points they have accumulated.

The reality is there are loads of hunters sitting on 20+ points!

@huntnphool had about the only realistic idea I've heard for how to wean a state off points...but even that would be a tough sell.

[bobcat]

I'm sure there are many people every year who are surprised and very disappointed when they don't draw a permit they applied for- because, they had more than the number of points needed to draw that particular permit. (according to the average points shown in the pamphlet)

[Caseknife]

Bet the average points to draw Goat Rocks East next year is 28, believe that is what I had anyway.