Cold bore or fouled barrel.

[Crunchy]

Ok.  I have noticed my first shot on a clean and cold barrel is about 2.5 inches high and a tad to the right at 200 yards.  Is it a clean barrel or cold barrel that likely causing this?  It is also about 30 fps slower.  I didn't clean my barrel after shooting today to see what it does on my next range trip.  Anyone figure this out?  Groups awesome and roughly 12fps SD over 25 rounds.

[ELKBURGER]

Ok.  I have noticed my first shot on a clean and cold barrel is about 2.5 inches high and a tad to the right at 200 yards.  Is it a clean barrel or cold barrel that likely causing this?  It is also about 30 fps slower.  I didn't clean my barrel after shooting today to see what it does on my next range trip.  Anyone figure this out?  Groups awesome and roughly 12fps SD over 25 rounds.

I have noticed similar affects with cold bore mostly. Since it is mostly noticed between coyote hunts with very few shots, I dont clean the barrel after every hunt. When I check zero with a cold bore, first shot is a bit high and subsequent shots will stack on original zero.
Question is, do you zero for cold bore or follow up shots on warm barrel. For a hunting setup, cold bore shot should be the most important.

[fishngamereaper]

In my previous life we had to document every cold bore shot.
My rifle's where always high right. Still sub moa....but off.
Every gun is different.
Was it off enough to make a difference for hunting...no
But for what we did it was necessary knowledge.
We also fouled our barrels after cleaning.
A clean barrel seemed to make the cold bore worse.

[Mtnwalker]

Shoot a 5-7 shot cold bore group with ample time between shots and never hunt or zero on a freshly cleaned bore  you shouldn't be getting movement like that from cold to warm unless you're getting contact somewhere when things heat up or something else weird is going on. My guess is the culprit is the clean bore more so than the cold

[Bob33]

For hunting purposes the way I often test the accuracy of my rifles is to take one shot, take the target home, come back another day and take another shot...

A three to five shot group taken that way tells me much more about what I can expect while hunting. The first shot is the one that should matter most in a hunting situation.

[jrebel]

Clean bore shots are way worse than cold bore shots in my opinion.  I never hunt on a clean bore.  I usually deep clean my barrels once a year before I put them away for the winter.  From spring till the deep clean cycle, I may run a couple patches through the rifle ever 50-100 shots or as groups start to open up.  After a deep clean, I find it could take 3-5 shots to foul the barrel before my groups start tightening up again. 

Same is true for a muzzleloader.....though usually one fouling shot is plenty.   

[GWP]

I have had rifles AND pistols (long range) that would shoot different on a cold bore shot and/or with a clean barrel. Some others it made no difference. One of my best shooting rifles was in a stock not make for it and had misc contact in various places to the end of the wood stock. I eventually cleaned up the contact points, bedded it and it made ZERO difference that I could tell, but that one was certainly the exception. I often wondered if it cancelled out the harmonics, touching in so many places.
The only way to know on yours is to experiment, like you and others have said.

[Buckjunkie]

I have a rifle that shoots good cold and clean, but all the others like to be fowled…at least 3 - 5 shots.

All shoot good cold fowled.

[pickardjw]

Easy solution, stop cleaning the barrel.

[30.06]

I fire 2 fouling shots from each rifle before arriving in hunting camp. 3 would be better but I am a cheapskate and don't reload. If I miss I clean the rifle and switch to the other one. I probably wouldn't miss so much if I fired 4 fouling shots from each rifle.

Probably as many different ways to approach the problem as there are different ways to hunt. Great topic!

[Stein]

Clean bore shots are way worse than cold bore shots in my opinion.  I never hunt on a clean bore.  I usually deep clean my barrels once a year before I put them away for the winter.  From spring till the deep clean cycle, I may run a couple patches through the rifle ever 50-100 shots or as groups start to open up.  After a deep clean, I find it could take 3-5 shots to foul the barrel before my groups start tightening up again. 

Same is true for a muzzleloader.....though usually one fouling shot is plenty.   

 

Clean barrel for sure.  When you really get a barrel hot it will likely also stray, but that's not in the first several shots.  My hunting rifle only takes 2 shots before it's back on, so I clean before hunting season and then one trip to the range for 5-10 shots to verify everything.

You can also sight in for a clean bore, but then it's only on for 1-2 shots so that never made any sense to me.

[zwickeyman]

Clean bore shots are way worse than cold bore shots in my opinion.  I never hunt on a clean bore.  I usually deep clean my barrels once a year before I put them away for the winter.  From spring till the deep clean cycle, I may run a couple patches through the rifle ever 50-100 shots or as groups start to open up.  After a deep clean, I find it could take 3-5 shots to foul the barrel before my groups start tightening up again. 

Same is true for a muzzleloader.....though usually one fouling shot is plenty.   

  Right on the money

[Crunchy]

I just loaded a fresh batch of ammo.  Going to leave it dirty and see what happens.  Ive been shooting a lot lately so I usually clean it after each trip and 20/25 rounds.

[Sneaky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvLQ1rkpUTwo

Worth a listen/try

[pickardjw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvLQ1rkpUTwo

Worth a listen/try

 

[hookr88]

I fire 2 fouling shots from each rifle before arriving in hunting camp. 3 would be better but I am a cheapskate and don't reload. If I miss I clean the rifle and switch to the other one. I probably wouldn't miss so much if I fired 4 fouling shots from each rifle.

Probably as many different ways to approach the problem as there are different ways to hunt. Great topic!

How much do you invest in your hunting vs the cost of 2 extra rounds a year? Just buy the cheapest ammo you can for your fouling loads. If your not zeroing, just fouling it doesn’t matter where they go.

[shmacker]

That podcast is an interesting listen.  For the guys who don’t clean their barrels, do you run an oiled patch through the barrel before putting your gun in the safe for a few months?  Or just zero cleaning/oiling?

[Stein]

I don't oil it at all during the year, but I have a stainless barrel and try to keep the humidity in my safe on the lower end.  It's never been an issue even for my other rifles that aren't stainless.  Like some of the others, on a normal year I'll clean it once before I put it up.  If I don't shoot it much I've gone two years.

[CarbonHunter]

I keep the outside of the rifle oiled but the barrel gets a swab about every 100 rounds or once every year or two if I’m not shooting much. That’s for a proof barrel and my other rifles I swab once a year or every 25 rounds.

[Fidelk]

1. Any oil in the barrel after cleaning should be burned out by firing a round or two......more, if you are sighting in or confirming your zero.

2. Once sighted in, do not clean if you will be hunting with it in the near future.

3. I believe a cold barrel is best to determine accuracy.......after taking the first shot, wait at least two minutes between following shots.......cool it down a bit.

That's all that I think I know. You can test this by setting up a steady rest and after doing the above, shoot the same number of shots as rapidly as you can without a cool down interval and then compare the results.

[Sneaky]

That podcast is an interesting listen.  For the guys who don’t clean their barrels, do you run an oiled patch through the barrel before putting your gun in the safe for a few months?  Or just zero cleaning/oiling?

I still oil to prevent any rust but I don't scrub the bore anymore. I am about 300 rounds in since cleaning on a suppressed 6.5cm and its running/grouping like a champ. The no clean thing is new to me and if I get an issue I will report back.

[CaNINE]

I stopped cleaning barrels about 7 years ago. I do clean and lube the action and bolt as needed.  There is simply no reason to clean a barrel….unless you stick the bore in the mud.

[Magnum_Willys]

I shoot big hunting magnums quite a bit at 1000 yards over the year.  Accuracy drops off after 25-30 rounds I find and thorough cleaning of the carbon gets it back. 
Accuracy for me is 5 shots I can cover with my hand at 1000 yards.   

[CaNINE]

I shoot big hunting magnums quite a bit at 1000 yards over the year.  Accuracy drops off after 25-30 rounds I find and thorough cleaning of the carbon gets it back. 
Accuracy for me is 5 shots I can cover with my hand at 1000 yards.

I suppose it varies by gun. I haven’t cleaned my RUMs for hundreds of rounds and they’ve maintained accuracy. I do keep a round count and am watching for changes in group size.

[Magnum_Willys]

I see much less need to clean with H1000 vs n570 an RL33 fwiw

[dmoua]

From my experiences, the first few shots with a clean bore will always be anywhere from 30-50 fps slower and have a point of impact shift. Within 5 shots or less depending if I go to bare metal or not it’s usually back on track and back to where it was initially zeroed. It’s what I have noticed with the last 5 dasher barrels and my other barrels I use for hunting. I’m a cleaner and clean my comp rifles after each day of competing. Hunting I’ll clean every 200 hundred rounds or so. It doesn’t take much effort and I know it will always shoot as expected.

I have yet to see a big shift of impact with a cold bore shot with a barrel that’s already been fouled. Maybe a tenth or less at 100 yards and more than likely due to cold shooter syndrome. If a barrel has a noticeable shift with cold bore shots, it’s only good for plinking imo or close encounters.

[pickardjw]

That podcast is an interesting listen.  For the guys who don’t clean their barrels, do you run an oiled patch through the barrel before putting your gun in the safe for a few months?  Or just zero cleaning/oiling?

Yes, though I haven't in the last few years since I stopped cleaning. Just happen to shoot them all frequently enough. Small safe 

[Crunchy]

Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds.  It grouped very well.  at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1.  Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500.  Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950

[jrebel]

Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds.  It grouped very well.  at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1.  Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500.  Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950

That ES and SD are just fine if the rifle is grouping well.  An ES of 30 or less with SD in the single digits is pretty darn good.  👍

[Crunchy]

Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds.  It grouped very well.  at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1.  Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500.  Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950

That ES and SD are just fine if the rifle is grouping well.  An ES of 30 or less with SD in the single digits is pretty darn good.  👍

you are probably right but you know how that chasing your tail thing goes.  If I don't settle soon I will burn this barrel out haha.  Three different powders, two different primers and two different bullets.  I am going to shoot one more ladder and I give.  It is shooting very well. 

[Mtnwalker]

Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds.  It grouped very well.  at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1.  Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500.  Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950

That ES and SD are just fine if the rifle is grouping well.  An ES of 30 or less with SD in the single digits is pretty darn good.  👍

you are probably right but you know how that chasing your tail thing goes.  If I don't settle soon I will burn this barrel out haha.  Three different powders, two different primers and two different bullets.  I am going to shoot one more ladder and I give.  It is shooting very well.

Agreed, you're talking less than 3" of vertical dispersion at 1000 yards with your 19 ES. Unless you just enjoy tinkering

[Crunchy]

For those following the journey 
Ran a ladder  from low to high and then high to low after letting the barrel cool.  This was with a clean bore and took two foolers before starting.  Ive been shooting at 66.4 but now thinking maybe I should be at 67.1ish.

66.1  2928.   2933
66.4. 2929    2947
66.7. 2956.   2951
67.0. 2964.   2963
67.3. 2971.   2958
67.6. 2993.   2984

[Lowedog]

Hornady has several podcasts on the subject of group size.  You may already be aware of this...