Lesson from 07 raffle deer hunt

[Wea300mag]

I think we are all in agreement here. When I first received notice of the raffle tag, I thought a 180 was going to be a gimmie. I had many people telling me that the Entiat was full of 180+ deer. Unfortunately for me, these guys had not been in the Entiat for 3 years.

The same goes for the Desert. It used to be the top choice on my permit app every year. It's not going to even be a choice for me anymore. I spent 8 full days wandering around in there and saw one buck I would harvest with a normal permit. All the pics of the big deer out of there are either from years past or private land. I have never seen so many dink bucks in one place.

I am real curious as to what the Gov tag will go for next year. The last three years have been, nada, nada, and a 170ish this year. This is with a lot of hired hands. I realize these guys have a lot of extra money to throw away but I am betting the tag bid price will continue to decrease.

[Ridgerunner]

Guys I think what Boneaddict said has a significant part in why the buck numbers are down on the top end, the longer season really took a toll on the more mature bucks.  I predict in a few more years we will get back to where it was in 02 and 03, but thats barring a killer winter which we are over due for as it has been 10+ years since that last happened. 

[bobcat]

Good posts by everybody. The basic problem as MuleySniper said, is too many people living and hunting in this state, and of course, the lack of management by the WDFW. I have a hard time putting all the blame on the DFW though, because what they are doing is trying to please the most people, and MOST people want to hunt deer every single year, and they want don't want any limitations on where they hunt, AND they want a long season. There is simply too much pressure being put on our mule deer. It's hard to admit, but the problem is US.

I wonder how it would go over if hunters were limited to hunting either deer OR elk in a particular year, instead of BOTH. That might be a good way to limit pressure. I know it will never happen, but if it did, I would be happy to limit myself to only one species per year if it meant a drastic reduction in the number of hunters in the field at a time.

[dbllunger]

Posting for a bud who has been following this post.  His opinion on the low deer numbers that has not been mentioned is the last few winters.  The last two winters 05/06 - 06/07 have been substantially worse for snow considering the winters of 04/05 - 05-6.  Not only the higher snow depth, but the type of winter with the warming then cold causing heavy snow crusting.  His opinion is based on all the dead deer numbers has seen in the spring while shed hunting the Entiat/Swakane/Chiwawa area.  This does not count the increased road kills, dog kills, orchard kill, and ones that were already eaten by scavangers.   Just his opinion based on what he has seen.  He agrees with the previous posts also, but he also thinks mother nature is compounding the hunter pressure.  Don't forget 92 and 96 and how long it took for the deer to come back.  Idaho still has not recovered it's mule deer from 92.

[huntnphool]

Interesting Dbllunger!!!

Actually the winters in the last couple years have not been that bad on mule deer, its been the other things that have taken the toll on them.

Obviously your friend can read these posts, is there a reason he cant post his own questions or points? No offense or accusations meant, just wondering.

[dbllunger]

I guess he just does not want to sign up.  I would disagree also on the last two winters not being hard on deer.  They could have been worse, but compared to the previous 2 or even three years the winters have been substantially colder, longer, more snow, and with some melting and freezing.  The Methow had a flood warning in January I believe three years ago.  There is no way to have that kind of melt unless there is a substantial period of warming.  I have seen deer with legs totally scraped up from frozen snow, and that has to factor in.  I don't have any interest in shed hunting so I don't spend a lot of time in the woods during late winter/spring.  When some pretty hard core shed guys are seeing more dead deer then the previous two years there must be something to it.  Everyone agrees there are many reasons for the decline, but the largest issue for me comes down to poor game management.  Good management factors in all the possible factors COUGARS AND COYOTES are a huge problem also.  After factoring in all aspects then set your goals for the upcoming year.  In Bo Patterson's own words "We do not manage for trophy animals in Wa....We have several units we limit hunting to offer increased opportunities at more mature  animals....Unfortunately a vast majority of hunters are happy just getting a buck, and they are the ones that determine the agencies main focus....I would love to have and have suggested a few trophy units, but I just don't see it happening in the near future".  So deduct what you want from that.  I can plainly see the middle and upper level is not even listening to the lower level, but making game management decisions based on politics.

[WDFW-SUX]

    

[popeshawnpaul]

According to statistics of snowpack depth (max. snow/water equivalent) at Stevens Pass, 2003 and 2004 were below average years and 2005 was the lowest recorded level ever.  2006 and 2007 were simply average years.  We have not had a large snowpack year since 2002... 

I can't help but think about the snow machines driven all over the winter range.  That must effect these deer.  Additionally, the deer herd is simply managed for maximum hunting opportunity and not quality deer.  Consequently, when I see a 165" WA mule deer I think that is equivalent to a 180" deer in another western state.

shawn

[rosscrazyelk]

I really love the fact that everyone is concerned about the decline of trophy animals in this state especially the Entiat. I harvested a 191 buck out of there the last year it was open. The year before they made it a permit area. When it was just a regular late season I hardly saw anyone. First year of the special permit season there were people everywhere. I do believe they need to cut back the number of tags in that unit and make it a 3 point min. again.  Also as 300 can account for when he was riding with rougheye  there were people all over the place shed hunting. We need to give the animals a break especially the bucks. Think about it they are rutting hard and being chased by hunters for a good month .. They are pooped.. Maybe the state should close it to shed hunting until May like they do Oak creek.

[Ironhead]

What will it take to get the WDFW to start managing for quality instead of quantity? As the others have said ithe Entiat gets TOO MUCH PRESSURE in a lot of different ways. Those Entiat Deer are being hunted from Sept. through mid Dec.
High hunt, General modern, Modern permit, Permit archery x 2, Then  snow machines and Shed hunting till early summer then campers and hikers and it starts all over again. That unit is known as one of the best if not the best in the state and every body wants a part of it. It and a few other units have to be managed better or they will never be what they could be. We need an initiative for Mule Deer to better the herds and use the potential this state has. Washinton looks at itself as one of the states at the forefront of major political and civil issues yet our Game and Fish department is so far behind the rest of the west. It's time we get this straightened out.

[Ridgerunner]

I think the members of this board should get organized and when they do the next 3 year season setting be organized and see if they can make a change through the process they have in place. 

[mossback91]

The state is too greedy it will never work. they need to do this with elk herds too. I think ti would be great you must buy a liscense and tag to put in for hunt adn draw for certain areas. Some areas need to be eraticated of many whitetails and let the muleys grow too.

[Ironhead]

 All of the western states used to be greedy but one by one they have started figuring out that the Non- Residents were bringing in the money. With not only the huge prices of liscense and tag sales but the fuel ,food and motel costs too. It's got to start somewhere.

[WDFW-SUX]

Jeff knows who I am. We don't agree on anything. Its pointless.

[lemondog]

Ok Fellas, As one who spent my 8 points over there it is clear you are all correct, too much pressure. No big deer. Change can happen and it can start here. We can get some "Trophy" units put in place. The department manages for what the people want, and what the"budget" can handel. Change in the hunter base is happening. My dad could care less about quality as long as he could drive his jeep anywhere he wanted to go. There are now more of us than ever that are willing to sacrifice for "quality". Will it cost more. YES. But will it cost less than I am spending to try to get drawn in Colorado or Nevada? YES! We need to get this thing going so that when the next season input session happens the are hearing what we are saying. Hunting needs to be a quality outdoor experience. It rarely is while it is being managed to close to the way it was 20 years ago.....Lets get it started.