Archery hunters being phased out...

[bobcat]

That's right. A 270, 30-06, 300 Mag, etc, from 20 years ago was just as good as what we have today. The average person and average rifle back then was good to 300 yards, same as today. I think spike is onto something.

[nw_bowhunter]

I was referring to the optics, ammo that are made for the rilfes. Technologies had improved those compents which has aided hunters around.

[danceswitharrows]

That's a good point spike. The latest harvest report (2008) shows archery hunters with a 9.1% success rate on elk, versus a 6.2% success rate for modern firearm elk hunters.

Thats just because archers are just better hunters

[spike]

From my somewhat biased view I would love to see a traditional archery season that started earlier or lasted longer than those who shoot those arrow flinging devices with all the wheels and cables and such. I know this would probably never happen and I'm not so sure it would all be good but it sure would make my day.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Just what the department wants... Desention, archers think they are getting screwed so they get mad at the rifle hunters and the muzzy hunters when they should be really mad at the department.

I am a muzzy hunter and i hate the department, we have the worst season and the least amount of units to hunt so we cram a ton f people into a few units, the department says the success is to great for muzzy but what they don't understand is if you spread out the hunters you would reduce the harvest.
We all need to stick together and stop fighting amongst the users to keep our opportunities.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I some what agree but I don't know that most average rifles of today are that much better than most average rifles of 20 years ago.I admit that I know very little about muzzle loaders.I truly believe that an average compound bow of today is 10 times better and easier to shoot than a top of the line bow of 20 years ago

I completely agree that we are losing archery hunting opportunity due to advances in the harvest efficiency of modern archery tackle.  20 years ago, I shot every day all summer to consistently hit a paper plate at 50 yards.  I can do the same with a properly tuned and equipped modern bow in a couple of hours, after a year w/o shooting. 

[dreamingbig]

That's right. A 270, 30-06, 300 Mag, etc, from 20 years ago was just as good as what we have today. The average person and average rifle back then was good to 300 yards, same as today. I think spike is onto something.

Come on man!  Are you serious? It is not easier to harvest an elk with a bow than a rifle and/or muzzleloader.  Sure equipment is better for archery than it used to be but a muzzleloader isn't what it used to be either.  Taking away antlerless harvest will make that success rate plummet (I will bet it will be less than 5%).

I agree with WDFW-Sux that we need to stick together but the changes in the past 3 years have been very one sided.  I have written letters to the department but it is falling on deaf ears.

Your issue with the change in the permit system and how they handled the entire process is the same thing the archery user group has been dealing with for the past 3 years.

[littlemac]

I am getting too old, I heard this argument (phase out) from rifle hunters when seasons were shortened many years ago and again when spike only rules instigated as well as three pt minimums for deer.

It does suck for sure (all around) and I too agree with the argument on the improvement of equipment on both sides.  Before range finders, more powerful optics and proliferation of larger caliber rifles, not many hunters were skilled enough to make 300 yard plus shots.  Now if you can't shot 300 in a lot of areas you may struggle to get a shot.  The advent of the compound bow changed the archery hunts in that it allowed many more hunters to feel comfortable in their ability to use a bow and they chose to switch from modern to archery to improve their odds.

Now, the trend has gotten to a point that it has led to the greater success rates and that is with the larger number of archers.  It may be that archery's success in drawing more people to the sport has led to this reduction of opportunity being managed by season length and tag availability.

Regardless, we are all getting regulated into a box.   

 

[h2ofowlr]

With all the multi-season permit holders, the success rate and hunting may also be increasing.  I know many guys that purchased bows and muzzle loaders to hunt this season.  Several ended up getting nice elk during archery season and never had shot archery before.  We turn in our tags at the end of the season, so the data can be logged into the system.  Higher success rates = tighter seasons.

[bobcat]

That's right. A 270, 30-06, 300 Mag, etc, from 20 years ago was just as good as what we have today. The average person and average rifle back then was good to 300 yards, same as today. I think spike is onto something.

Come on man!  Are you serious? It is not easier to harvest an elk with a bow than a rifle and/or muzzleloader.  Sure equipment is better for archery than it used to be but a muzzleloader isn't what it used to be either.  Taking away antlerless harvest will make that success rate plummet (I will bet it will be less than 5%).

I never said it was easier to get an elk with a bow. But obviously, it is. Higher success rates tell us that. If the seasons were at the same times then it would be a different story. But hunting during the rut makes all the difference. Plus the late archery season when snow pushes them down.

They only took away antlerless in two units. I don't think success rates are going to go down, overall. Most people will simply hunt a different unit.

[rasbo]

bows are way more efficient and therefore I believe regs should change accordingly...I hear guys talking and bragging 50 60 80 yrd shots well that's good muzzy range...I guess the guys without wheels and cams would have the legitimate gripe here..But that's just me...

[dreamingbig]

bows are way more efficient and therefore I believe regs should change accordingly...I hear guys talking and bragging 50 60 80 yrd shots well that's good muzzy range...I guess the guys without wheels and cams would have the legitimate gripe here..But that's just me...

60 and 80 yard shots are not ethical with a bow, but that is just me... The arrow doesn't get there fast enough if the animal decides to take a step or moves at the moment of release.

[boneaddict]

As stated....as bows become more efficient YOUR seasons will get shorter.   You will have less oppurtunity.  As deer popullations decrease and there is more and more harvest, something has to give.  
Its human nature to try to be competetive whether thats with a fellow bowhunter, or another "weapon" type.  Very few have the will power or drive to limit themselves with technology.  Its a vain effort, but I can feel good about it.  If you talk about it or state your opinion, then we get the big speech about the demise of our sport becasue we aren't sticking together....or we get the speech that the traditional guys are snobs....blah blah.  Point is, if you want a MODERN FIREARM, then you will have SHORTer seasons.  

[Holg3107]

I really don't think that the success rates are very valid in this discusson. If you analyze it a bit more you will notice that the overall 2008 harvest statistics have archery at 9.5% and have modern at 8.5%. Pretty sure a 1% difference is within the standard deviation.also there is a huge difference in success rates of special permit hunts. Moderns are always at least 2x as successful as the archers. That tells me that the season dates have little validity in saying that archers are more successful base on the fact that they hunt the rut. What it says is that archers tend to have a higher percentage of experienced hunters. Many times it has come up that the same 5% of hunters kill 90% of the animals.

While I agree that the newer archery equipment makes it easier to hold an arrow for longer and has definitely made it possible to have more success you still have to be within 50 yds (yes i know people shoot animals at 60+ but that is rare). what the technology has done is allowed more people to get into archery and have the potential to harvest an animal with a bow that with the old equipment they would not have had that opportunity.

[bobcat]

I have a cousin who hunts archery elk and I've never heard him talk of a shot less than 60 yards. I'd guess his average shot is 75 yards. And he has killed a lot of elk. Of course, I've heard of quite a few misses as well.