Archery hunters being phased out...

[boneaddict]

Good points.  

Maybe they figure there are already late hunt oppurtunities for archery guys, so they don't necessarily need to have special permit hunts.    

[bobcat]

I really don't think that the success rates are very valid in this discusson. If you analyze it a bit more you will notice that the overall 2008 harvest statistics have archery at 9.5% and have modern at 8.5%. Pretty sure a 1% difference is within the standard deviation.also there is a huge difference in success rates of special permit hunts.

Yes, the success rate I quoted was for general seasons, which is when the majority of elk are killed anyway. 6.2% for modern firearm and 9.1% for archery is fairly significant, I would say.

[rougheye]

I really don't think that the success rates are very valid in this discusson. If you analyze it a bit more you will notice that the overall 2008 harvest statistics have archery at 9.5% and have modern at 8.5%. Pretty sure a 1% difference is within the standard deviation.also there is a huge difference in success rates of special permit hunts. Moderns are always at least 2x as successful as the archers. That tells me that the season dates have little validity in saying that archers are more successful base on the fact that they hunt the rut. What it says is that archers tend to have a higher percentage of experienced hunters. Many times it has come up that the same 5% of hunters kill 90% of the animals.

While I agree that the newer archery equipment makes it easier to hold an arrow for longer and has definitely made it possible to have more success you still have to be within 50 yds (yes i know people shoot animals at 60+ but that is rare). what the technology has done is allowed more people to get into archery and have the potential to harvest an animal with a bow that with the old equipment they would not have had that opportunity.

I agree . Any bowhunter on here knows that shooting is just a small piece of the puzzle . The multi season permits are a joke IMO . Hundreds of archers out there that are not dedicated bowmen and you should be dedicated to archery hunt .

[adam.WI]

I really don't think that the success rates are very valid in this discusson. If you analyze it a bit more you will notice that the overall 2008 harvest statistics have archery at 9.5% and have modern at 8.5%. Pretty sure a 1% difference is within the standard deviation.also there is a huge difference in success rates of special permit hunts.

Yes, the success rate I quoted was for general seasons, which is when the majority of elk are killed anyway. 6.2% for modern firearm and 9.1% for archery is fairly significant, I would say.

My thoughts would be there are a  lot more people hunting modern that never get out of there truck. To say archery hunters are better hunters is crap, but with that said not many people buy an archery tag with the intent to drive around and shoot one of the road. Not to point fingers at any one but that is what a fair number of modern hunters do.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I was going to say a lot of things that have already been said, I agree that we need to quit arguing about season disparity, and who uses what.
In my honest opinion, the reason for lack of "special permits", for Archery has more to do with $$$$$ than anything else, The largest percentage of licence buyers/permit applicants are modern firearm users, second comes archery (a change from the past) and Muzzle-loaders are the smallest user group.
Muzzle loaders have the shortest season, but they actually do get the better part of the rut (especially on the west side) and the main reason for their permits is to allow the WDFW to control WHAT they harvest, by controlling numbers of permit holders (kind of like a quota system)
The lack of special permits for archery has more to do with opportunity, I mean when we already have antlerless hunts in 3 point minimum areas, what kind of permit would we want ?
As far as East-side, and "quality" hunts...I think we are getting robbed, but again it is about $$$, the WDFW definitely takes into account HOW MANY SPECIAL PERMIT APPLICATIONS CAN THEY SELL, I mean, why sell a few hundred applications, when you can sell THOUSANDS ?
It is unfortunate that our WDFW is in the business of providing jobs, more than opportunity, but this is Washington, we have more hunters than game, more private land than public, and more restrictive rules than any other western state.
Things are probably going to get worse before they get better, but if you look at our historical harvests, as far as TOTALS, NOT PERCENTAGES, you will notice that it is pretty even, if not improving.

[hunt4]

6.2% for modern firearm and 9.1% for archery is fairly significant, I would say.

give me # not percentages how many Elk does 6.2 %= ? What are the # of rifle hunters that get out of there truck vs. a bowhunter.
How many rifle tags just sit in camp and enjoy just being there, My thoughts are there is just a way differant mentality for the different user groups.  Those # I think are a bit quid.

[WDFW-SUX]

 

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

but if you look at our historical harvests, as far as TOTALS, NOT PERCENTAGES

As far as numbers...
in 1997 there were 220,547 Deer tags purchased.
31,525 deer harvested.
24,538 by modern.
2344 by archery.
1180 by muzzleloader
there were 68,492 Elk tags purchased
 4919 Elk harvested
1941 by modern.
1071 by Archery.
701 by muzzleloader.
In 2008 there were 167,967 Deer tags purchased.
35116 deer harvested.
24403 by modern.
4897 by archery.
2281 by muzzleloader.
There were 107,915 Elk tags purchased
6826 Elk harvested.
4042 by modern.
1669 by archery.
1101 by muzzleloader.
 So there are less deer hunters, but MORE deer being harvested, and ALMOST TWICE as many Elk hunters, and a similar number, with a 25-30% increase, of Elk being harvested.....

[carpsniperg2]

who know with the fish and wildlife.

[bbarnes]

Whens the last time archers had to buy cow tags or doe tags.The way i see it they have had all the advantages way to long.LOL

[bbarnes]

Sticknstringbow i would like the number of archers muzzel loaders and modern firearm hunters broken down.Number of kills doesnt matter untill you compare apples to apples.If theres 1000 archers and there success 20 percent and if theres 20000 modern firearm hunters and there success is 20 percent and if muzzel loaders success is 20 percent out of 10000 whos killing more wildlife.More hunting day hunting the rut muliple saeson ect.ect.ect.Show me the numbers.

[hunt4]

2008 general harvest

modern  2,756  (2,385 bulls) 47,370 hunters, but 70,252 tags purchased

Archery 1,538  (845 bulls) 17,509 huntes

muzzle  645  (484 bulls)  11,266 hunters

special perments
Modern Firearm hunters=3,215 bulls=378 cows=908  harvest=1,286  success=40.0%
Archery hunters=614 bulls=95 cows=36 harvest=131 success=21.3 %
muzzle hunters=1,424 bulls=65 cows=391 harvest=456 success=32.0%

[steen]

When I shot my elk in the Blues last fall I heard some talking of quite a few archery elk not recovered until you could smell them.  It was to late for the meat so only the antlers were recovered.  They were talking about cutting the archery and adding rifle but I thought it was just talk.  I don't remember if it was other hunters or the game wardens or others.  I hunt rifle and my husband hunts bow and rifle so I have to see it both ways.  Just what I heard.

[onepissedoffhunter]

Has anyone given any thought to how much more efficient archery equipment has become in recent years? A compound bow from the early 90's is junk compaired to today's arrow flinging devices.Archery seasons are the most liberal because bows are the most primitive.It used to take a ton of skill and practice to get good with a bow now all you need is about a grand and a couple weeks of practice.If we really want to see longer and better seasons, at some point we might need to go back to traditional archery.Just my 2 cents worth.

Obviously you have no clue how much a new bow costs as you quote prices for a bow in the 90's.  Your obviously not a bow hunter.  Don't worry, this years regulations makes the general season just as appealing to archers switching over to your season and or hunting with bows in the general season.  You too will be crying when you see the increase in #'s of hunters for the general riffle.  It used to be about the challenge and the silence out there with no riffles, now it will be about condensing all hunters into tight quarters and smaller units with less space.  Good luck finding a camp in the general!

[onepissedoffhunter]

In the big picture it makes sense from a liberal point of view to keep limiting the opportunities of bow hunters until it makes no sense to hunt with a bow anymore, thats not far away.  Nearly everyone will be a riffle hunter and thats when weapons will be restricted in this state and prices will skyrocket.  After a few years of a higher population of riffle hunters are milked for revenue and permit purchases, just watch what will happen.  Can't wait.  Stay on the same team on these topics.  WDFW would rather see hunters fighting each other then fighting them. 

Who cares about the success rate of bow vs. riffle or muzzy.  Those stories of some bow hunters taking animals at an average of 75 yards is a joke. OR success rate comparisons, just worry about your own.  How often do you get an unobstructed shot even at 40 yards espeacially on the west side?  They just want you to believe they killed an animal at that distance, and their full of crap.  Oh yeah and early season archery isn't really in the rut, and late season for archers is always up high, just look at the not so attractive units open to them later in the season, its the same as early season. 

All of us will soon be holding riffles in our hands hunting together on crowded unmaintained roads, in smaller units, paying top dollar for tags and permits.  The regulations state it boldly.  Just look at the increase in non-resident washington tags...($1800).  Who would ever pay that?  We will all be paying higher fees for less management and less hunting opportunity but increased crowds.  This does no good for the general season as they will find an explosion of more hunters and less space when archers cross over this year and in the near future.  Time to hunt another state, and let the salaries of WDFW be paid by someone else.  Good luck to everyone this year hunting in washington as future looks very dissappointing for hunters of all types.