Methow Valley Bulletin Board... Wolf Wars.

[Ray]

You suggesting that I think 2 wrongs make a right is ironic when you imply that breaking the law is fine as long as you feel that it is justified in that your government is failing you.  Wouldn't it be more like the American way to try and change the laws instead of breaking them? 

Let me expand on the differences between the law and morals when it comes to this criticism which is off target and inaccurate.

First of all the law is often an attempt at a public consensus to solving a problem. Often that consensus is reached by a moral standard or agreement of some sort. Laws are not infallible and cannot replace moral actions. They are merely attempts at doing so (obviously not all laws though).

Therefore when a law becomes grossly unjust there will be a period of time where the revision of law has not taken place but the law is the source of contempt. Basically the law becomes invalid, off target and even source of injustice; either in whole or part or by some unforseen side effect.

Now the country we live in was founded on some certain principles. That was land ownership and personal property belonging to the citizens. Not a totalitarian government which forces it's wishes onto the people. So when the government institutes a law which is destructive to the personal property or even public property it will again be a source of negativity. It has been often the reason for people to become rebellious. Such as during the Prohibition era. Another disaster which was legally enforced and which was finally dismissed. Some examples take longer than others to come to conclusion. I believe this wolf issue is still in turmoil and that our system has not reached the final stages of revising the laws and powers of the government when it comes to this subject. Therefore I don't believe it is ironic as you assert. The law must simply be revised so that it is not intrusive, abusive or otherwise a detriment to the rights of the people. Therefore we know this law is unjust, immoral... at least in part or by side effect. Conclusion - it is reasonable to take the law into your own hands in some circumstances without tainting your credibility or subjecting yourself to "irony" as you say. The American way is not to sit back and wait for your government to make it right. If it was, we would not be a unique country with self motivated do it yourself people.

[Special T]

My biggest gripe is I have not seen any meat and potato arguments from the pro wolf side... Wa Coyote has provided a little info, but the rest is just hypothetical "devils advocate" scenarios.... The more i read about the wolf issue the more i feel like I've just had an argument with my wife... Lots of how come you feel this way, it should be that way,etc... I wish someone that CLAIMS to be a pro wolfer would have the stones to bring their facts to the debate.... I would feel much more satisfied getting many ass kicked in an argument by a worthy opponent... I feel like throwing up my hands, talking in circles about wolves. It's just like at the end of the argument with my wife; no new facts, I'm still pissed off and ya some how I'm still wrong..

[steen]

I heard that the wolf pack in Lookout was planted by a private party ( White) without any officials giving the go ahead to plant them.

[coop2424]

My biggest gripe is I have not seen any meat and potato arguments from the pro wolf side... Wa Coyote has provided a little info, but the rest is just hypothetical "devils advocate" scenarios.... The more i read about the wolf issue the more i feel like I've just had an argument with my wife... Lots of how come you feel this way, it should be that way,etc... I wish someone that CLAIMS to be a pro wolfer would have the stones to bring their facts to the debate.... I would feel much more satisfied getting many ass kicked in an argument by a worthy opponent... I feel like throwing up my hands, talking in circles about wolves. It's just like at the end of the argument with my wife; no new facts, I'm still pissed off and ya some how I'm still wrong..

haha isn't that the truth.  That is exactly how I feel also...

[bearpaw]

My biggest gripe is I have not seen any meat and potato arguments from the pro wolf side... Wa Coyote has provided a little info, but the rest is just hypothetical "devils advocate" scenarios.... The more i read about the wolf issue the more i feel like I've just had an argument with my wife... Lots of how come you feel this way, it should be that way,etc... I wish someone that CLAIMS to be a pro wolfer would have the stones to bring their facts to the debate.... I would feel much more satisfied getting many ass kicked in an argument by a worthy opponent... I feel like throwing up my hands, talking in circles about wolves. It's just like at the end of the argument with my wife; no new facts, I'm still pissed off and ya some how I'm still wrong..

haha isn't that the truth.  That is exactly how I feel also...

Now that new data is available showing the effects of wolves, other scietists atre stepping forward with previous data that was covered up, and it is common knowledge that the former Idaho director violated laws passed by the Idaho lagislature to let the USFWS bring in wolves, there's not much solid arguments for the pro-wolfers to make, that's why the debate seems so lopsided. I would not want to have to support their position, all they have is emotion.  

This was not directed at anyone here, I am talking about the real greenies.

[jmoyer2]

Wolves are bad MMMKAY Haha get it? From south park? I thought it was funny.......

[wolfbait]

FreeCoyote Today 6:29 AM



I, Jonesy (Maury Jones), was personally involved in the legislation trying to craft a Wyoming wolf management plan that would be acceptable to the US Fish and Wildlife Service.  Our legislators and our governor specifically lamented that the feds would not tell us what we had to have to get it approved.  We literally begged the USFWS to tell us what we needed in our plan.  They would not, perhaps because they were aware of a recent Supreme Court Ruling.

“The Federal Government may neither issue directives requiring the States to address particular problems, nor command the State’s officers, or those of their political subdivisions, to administer, or enforce a federal regulatory program. It matters not whether policymaking is involved, and no case-by-case weighing of the burdens or benefits is necessary; such commands are fundamentally incompatible with our constitutional system of dual sovereignty.” Printz v. United States, 521 U.S 898 (1997) 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1478.ZS.html

So we crafted the Wyoming Wolf Management Plan based on the Endangered Species Act, the Environmental Impact Statement, and the Final Rule for Introduction of the Grey Wolf.  10 of 11 wolf experts approved of Wyoming's plan saying that it would adequately protect 150 wolves (the minimum required was 100).  In spite of that, the USFWS ignored the experts and disapproved of the Wyoming plan, because we only protected wolves in the northwest corner of the state, not the whole state.  We didn't want wolves in the rest of the state, as it is not suitable habitat for them and thus they would prey on livestock to a great degree.  The EIS and the Final Rule specifically said that most of Wyoming was not suitable habitat for wolves, therefore Wyoming was only doing what the law said. 

So all this about Wyoming being the problem is NOT TRUE!!!  The blame lies squarely on the USFWS and the wolf-worshippers who run the show. 

The final solution is for the states, Wyoming specifically, to openly defy the feds and their attempts to control our management of OUR wildlife, by declaring that we, and we alone, own the wildlife in our state and will do what we damned well please with it.   

We must REFUSE to allow their federal dog to destroy our huntable populations of wildlife.  See the attachment.

http://tinyurl.com/2da47py

Jonesy
                     This is what it will take to Stop the FED , YOU must grow a Pair !

Quote Post 22

Posts [ 21 to 22 of 22 ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ray]

Wa Coyote has provided a little info, but the rest is just hypothetical "devils advocate" scenarios.

Or just hyperbole and spin.

[h2ofowlr]

It has taken decades to get the herds to the manageable populations where there at today.  It is going to take 1/4 of that time to wipe them out.  When you have the political rhetoric going on with no forward motion, the drag out of these "wolf wars" will have already had consequential effect felt for generations.  We all strive to do our part on the conservation level, through DU, RMEF, MF and others.  We all buy licenses that help pay for the conservation of these animals.  We are against poaching that remove our resources.  Then you have a reintroduction of the wolf species because some feel we need them.  They are a superb poachers of our resources.  If we all hunted year around without management we would not have resources to harvest.  When you get judges and politicians that are animal lovers that stop all management progress because they like all animals, there is no thought in what devastating effect there will be.  Wolves don't just target deer and elk.  Anything smaller in the food chain gets consumed.  If you are a truly a conservationist and hunter, it's time to stand up to these idiots releasing the wolves.
I attached a small blurb on U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy and how he blocked scheduled wolf hunts.

[GlennGTR]

Focus on your sights and squeeze the trigger.

[denali]

Thanks Wolfbait ... Great post    it is pretty obvious what has happened in Idaho when they decided to " play along"

[bearpaw]

Thanks Wolfbait ... Great post    it is pretty obvious what has happened in Idaho when they decided to " play along"

ditto that.....

[bearpaw]

Do you guys know the man in the photo in this thread?

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,57411.msg706569.html#msg706569

[Special T]

whats the back story on the photo... or the release of it?

[jackelope]

whats the back story on the photo... or the release of it?