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Author Topic: .270 vs 338  (Read 20468 times)

Offline 300UltraMagShooter

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.270 vs 338
« on: September 19, 2010, 09:11:08 PM »

which one and why?
just curious about responses.... i have zero clue at this point.

Offline 1bugman

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 09:14:33 PM »
Depends on what you want to hunt with it. I do most of my hunting with my 270. Killed a lot a deer. Just bought a 300 win mag. for elk. do know much about the 338,but it maybe a little over kill for Deer.

Offline wsucowboy

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 09:17:40 PM »
my dad has killed alot of deer with his 338 and it's not over kill. It's over kill when he shoots coyotes in the pasture with it but it's fine on deer.
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Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2010, 09:32:30 PM »
more details needed :chuckle:

what are you hunting?
how far are you wanting to shoot?
does ammo price matter?
do you handload?
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Offline 300UltraMagShooter

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2010, 09:41:08 PM »

no, don't hand load.

obviously i shoot a 300 rum.... and i love how accurate it is with factor ammo.

I got it cause I wanted to have a gun to hunt anything and everything with.  Just one gun.

I'm simply trying to figure out if I could not have done the same thing with something smaller.

i figured I'd go on the light side and on the upper and lower end of the spectrum to see if I could get some opinions.

Offline FC

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2010, 09:47:42 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_D.M._Bell

Bell shot over 1500 elephants during his career. He was noted for using high speed, smaller calibre bullets[7] rather than than the bigger slower calibres that were popular with other big game hunters[8]. Over a thousand of these kills were made with English manufactured copies of German Mauser rifles in 7x57mm calibre. A further 300 were killed with Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm[9] carbines, and another 200 with a .303 British[10]. He insisted on using military Full Metal Jacket bullets weighing from approx 150 to 200 grains, rather than the 400+ grain bullets popular at the time[11] Bell refused to use soft point bullets under any circumstances.

Shot placement is what it's all about, I would take the .270 out of those two.
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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2010, 09:55:13 PM »

which one and why?
just curious about responses.... i have zero clue at this point.

For what game and what ranges?

Offline shedcrazy

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2010, 10:01:51 PM »
I use both, they are my big game rifles. You can never kill them to dead. i love em both!!

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 10:06:15 PM »
I'd say if you already have a 300 ultra then go down to a 270. Really not going to gain anything by using a 338 on top of what you already have. But the 270 can be used well in addition to it, without overlapping.

Offline bobcat

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 10:26:23 PM »
I'd say if you already have a 300 ultra then go down to a 270. Really not going to gain anything by using a 338 on top of what you already have. But the 270 can be used well in addition to it, without overlapping.

:yeah:  You definitely won't gain anything by going to a 338, over a 300 Ultra Mag. But if you get a 270 you'll have a rifle that you actually might enjoy shooting more than that Ultra Mag, and it's probably going to be quite a bit lighter and easier to carry all day while hunting.

Offline Skinnyman

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2010, 10:59:52 PM »
Do you have to pick?? Two totally different guns, each having its own benefits. I personally have a 338 WM and love it, dont have a 270. But the recoil on the 338 WM for some might be a little stiff, although it doesn't bother me. Also, if you dont reload, 338 WM factory ammo is A LOT more expensive than 270 factory ammo. And at the range, you can put more 270 rounds downrange before your shoulder craps out.

If I had both guns, I would choose a 270 for deer and smaller, and a 338 for everything bigger. But I only have a 338, and I dont think a 338 is too big for deer (is there such a thing as too much gun, or too dead of an animal).


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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2010, 06:07:07 AM »
Talk about comparing apples and oranges.

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2010, 06:36:26 AM »
I sure dont like hurting, so I shoot something that is friendly to the shoulder. I shoot ether a .270win (most of the time) or a 30-06. Never felt under gunned. Made good shots at 300 ish yards with both. Deer fall over dead!
I felt like a one legged cat trying to bury a terd on a frozen pond!

Offline 1bugman

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2010, 07:25:38 AM »
If I had both guns, I would choose a 270 for deer and smaller, and a 338 for everything bigger. But I only have a 338, and I dont think a 338 is too big for deer (is there such a thing as too much gun, or too dead of an animal)

Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 08:09:23 AM by bobcat »

Offline bobcat

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2010, 07:33:38 AM »
Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

A 30-06 will do no more damage to meat than a 270. They are virtually the same as far as that aspect goes. It's the type of bullet used that really makes a difference.

Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2010, 07:42:35 AM »
338 the bullet diameter is a killer...
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Offline Skinnyman

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2010, 07:48:25 AM »
If I had both guns, I would choose a 270 for deer and smaller, and a 338 for everything bigger. But I only have a 338, and I dont think a 338 is too big for deer (is there such a thing as too much gun, or too dead of an animal)

Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

My question would be, what type of bullet was used. Probably a ballistic tip or something along those lines, that has violent expansion really quickly. Bullet construction has WAY more to do with the hamburger effect than cartridge size/power/bullet diameter.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 08:17:15 AM by Skinnyman »

Offline demontang

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2010, 07:58:22 AM »
I own a .338 wm and its a great gun. Shoots pretty flat and I wouldnt be afraid to pull the trigger on anything in this country. Ive shot 3 deer with it and have seen no more damage to meat then the .270,308 or 06 that my friends shoot. It realy comes down to what your thinking. If you just want one gun to kill everything I would take the .338 with the 225gr pill. If you looking at something cheaper/easier to shot go .270. You will feel the .338 just like the Rum and the 270 is pretty light in recoil comparing to them. The .270 and .338 are pretty close in drop depending on bullet and if you reload the cost get closer to shot them.

Offline Bofire

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2010, 08:39:36 AM »
338 Win Mag or 338 Federal?
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Offline yorketransport

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2010, 05:10:28 PM »
The 338 calibers cover a pretty broad power spectrum. I'm a big fan of all of the 338s. I actually just like the medium bores in general.

I think that a 338 Federal would compliment your Ultra Mag nicely.

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Offline wapiti hunter2

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2010, 05:32:32 PM »
Almost double the recoil energy at 25% higher velocity equals a lot of shoulder soreness and flinch potential.  To me they are like comparing apples to oranges

Cartridge (Wb@MV)          Rifle Weight    Recoil energy    Recoil velocity
.270 Win. (150 at 2900)              8.0                  17.0                  11.7
.338 Win. Mag. (200 at 2950)      8.5                  32.8                  15.8

Quote from Chuck Hawks. "It is worth remembering that the majority of authorities agree that recoil of over twenty foot pounds will cause most shooters to develop a serous flinch, which is ruinous to bullet placement (the prime component of killing power). Fifteen foot pounds is probably about the maximum recoil energy most shooters feel reasonably comfortable with, particularly at the shooting range, where most serious marksmanship practice occurs.

While recoil energy determines how hard the blow to the shoulder feels, recoil velocity determines how abrupt the blow to the shoulder feels. My subjective impression is that, with a well designed stock, recoil velocity above about 10 fps begins to feel like a sharp rap on the shoulder rather than an abrupt push."

Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2010, 05:44:10 PM »
270 if you are already shooting a 300rum. the 338 is a great round but your 300 rum is flatter shooting and pretty close. i would go with the 270. great tradjectory, will kill anything around, lighter recoil, cheaper ammo. :twocents:
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Offline 300UltraMagShooter

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2010, 07:42:38 PM »

I'm not necessarily a subscriber of the recoil theory myself...  Does 300 rum kick? You bet, but it is enjoyable.  I can see developing a flinch if it hurts (my 3 1/2 rem turkey loads hurt like a mother and I've caught myself flinching)...  I don't get the big deal with 300 rum kicking... it really is nothing but enjoyable raw power. 

I certainly see the bullet theory being viable...  doesn't matter how much energy the bullet carries if it isn't used in the animal...

After doing a little more research, it seems one of the biggests advantage of a mag is pushing a heavy bullet really fast which bucks the wind and makes longer distance shooting more doable.  Any truth to this?

Offline bobcat

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2010, 07:46:17 PM »
Yes, that's true. That's the only advantage to a "magnum." More velocity and a flatter trajectory with less wind drift. There's only a noticeable difference when you get out to 350 yards and farther. If you're only shooting as far as 300 to 350 yards, you don't need anything more than a 270 or 30-06.

Offline high country

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2010, 07:51:49 PM »
I own both, I haul my 270 99% of the time......oh, that include the time I carry it over my RUM's.  dang thing just works good.

Offline 1bugman

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2010, 08:52:48 PM »
Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

A 30-06 will do no more damage to meat than a 270. They are virtually the same as far as that aspect goes. It's the type of bullet used that really makes a difference.

Both guns where shooting Cor-Loks, The 30-06 was maybe 20 yrds close. We had to take the whole left shoulder off, it was totally blood shot and bruised. The 270 broke the shoulder, but very little meat was lost. The 30-06 is a great gun and yes it is similar to the 270. but most guys shoot 150 grain bullits, very few try to find or want to pay for smaller rounds. I'm not picking on 30-06, my point is if a 30-06 would do that, then 338 would too. If you don't care all that much for the meat, then fine. I like the meat, so for deer sized animals I would opt for my 270 over my 300. For bigger animals I would opt for the 300. Just my opinion.

Offline 300UltraMagShooter

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2010, 08:58:11 PM »
Couldn't you just shoot a harder bullet and get the same results on meat?  Seems that bullet construction would be the biggest factor in meat loss?


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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2010, 09:07:45 PM »
Maybe, and this was the only time I've been able to compare that close. I think a bigger heavier bullet will just do more damage. I think different types of bullits will preform differently. I not say to not shot deer with  a 30-06 or larger caliber. I am saying I love my 270 for deer and I going to use my 300 for elk. if i had a 30-06 I might use it for both. they all kill animals very well. and that is the most important thing

Offline bobcat

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2010, 09:20:17 PM »
Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

A 30-06 will do no more damage to meat than a 270. They are virtually the same as far as that aspect goes. It's the type of bullet used that really makes a difference.

Both guns where shooting Cor-Loks, The 30-06 was maybe 20 yrds close. We had to take the whole left shoulder off, it was totally blood shot and bruised. The 270 broke the shoulder, but very little meat was lost. The 30-06 is a great gun and yes it is similar to the 270. but most guys shoot 150 grain bullits, very few try to find or want to pay for smaller rounds. I'm not picking on 30-06, my point is if a 30-06 would do that, then 338 would too. If you don't care all that much for the meat, then fine. I like the meat, so for deer sized animals I would opt for my 270 over my 300. For bigger animals I would opt for the 300. Just my opinion.

Again, it's not the caliber that causes excessive meat damage, it's the speed of the bullet and the type of bullet. A heavier bullet will be easier on the meat, in general. Main reason for that being that a heavier bullet will be moving at a lower speed than a lighter bullet.

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2010, 07:17:55 AM »
Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

A 30-06 will do no more damage to meat than a 270. They are virtually the same as far as that aspect goes. It's the type of bullet used that really makes a difference.

Both guns where shooting Cor-Loks, The 30-06 was maybe 20 yrds close. We had to take the whole left shoulder off, it was totally blood shot and bruised. The 270 broke the shoulder, but very little meat was lost. The 30-06 is a great gun and yes it is similar to the 270. but most guys shoot 150 grain bullits, very few try to find or want to pay for smaller rounds. I'm not picking on 30-06, my point is if a 30-06 would do that, then 338 would too. If you don't care all that much for the meat, then fine. I like the meat, so for deer sized animals I would opt for my 270 over my 300. For bigger animals I would opt for the 300. Just my opinion.

Again, it's not the caliber that causes excessive meat damage, it's the speed of the bullet and the type of bullet. A heavier bullet will be easier on the meat, in general. Main reason for that being that a heavier bullet will be moving at a lower speed than a lighter bullet.
Yes Bullet design has a lot to do with it. But you been smoking some thing, Heavier, larger bullets do more damage than lighter smaller. Speed has some effect, and what that is again depends on bullet design.

Offline bobcat

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2010, 08:25:26 AM »
Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

A 30-06 will do no more damage to meat than a 270. They are virtually the same as far as that aspect goes. It's the type of bullet used that really makes a difference.

Both guns where shooting Cor-Loks, The 30-06 was maybe 20 yrds close. We had to take the whole left shoulder off, it was totally blood shot and bruised. The 270 broke the shoulder, but very little meat was lost. The 30-06 is a great gun and yes it is similar to the 270. but most guys shoot 150 grain bullits, very few try to find or want to pay for smaller rounds. I'm not picking on 30-06, my point is if a 30-06 would do that, then 338 would too. If you don't care all that much for the meat, then fine. I like the meat, so for deer sized animals I would opt for my 270 over my 300. For bigger animals I would opt for the 300. Just my opinion.

Again, it's not the caliber that causes excessive meat damage, it's the speed of the bullet and the type of bullet. A heavier bullet will be easier on the meat, in general. Main reason for that being that a heavier bullet will be moving at a lower speed than a lighter bullet.
Yes Bullet design has a lot to do with it. But you been smoking some thing, Heavier, larger bullets do more damage than lighter smaller. Speed has some effect, and what that is again depends on bullet design.

No, I think you've been eating some special mushrooms. If the weight of a bullet is such a determining factor in how much meat is ruined, why is it that I can shoot a deer with my 54 caliber muzzleloader and a 435 grain bullet, directly in the shoulder, and have virtually no meat loss, while the same shot with a 130 grain bullet out of a 270 Winchester will ruin BOTH shoulders?

Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2010, 08:28:30 AM »
 :chuckle:
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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2010, 08:44:43 AM »
Seems like if you already have a 300 RUM and are looking for another gun, a 25-06 is what you should be looking at instead of a 270.  With the premium 308 bullets now out there, the 300 pretty much takes care of anything you want to do on heavy game at long ranges.  A good 25-06 can fill the gap on down to coyotes. :twocents:
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Offline 300UltraMagShooter

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2010, 08:57:58 AM »
I've seen tests that show bullet speed is more important to tissue distruction than is bullet mass.

Having said that, that should not apply here since my 300 rum will be traveling at least as fast as a 270 at a heavier bullet weight (more energy).

I would imagine that bullet construction would be the most important aspect of dispursing that energy.    Harder/non-mushrooming bullet would dispurse less energy thus less tissue distruction.  

I guess the next test would be to shoot big game through shoulders and non-idea spots to see which works best?  I'd imagine that a bigger (heavier/denser) bullet would have a penetration advantage, but how much and would it be enough to justify a big cal such as the 338?

Offline yorketransport

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2010, 08:22:30 PM »

I guess the next test would be to shoot big game through shoulders and non-idea spots to see which works best?  I'd imagine that a bigger (heavier/denser) bullet would have a penetration advantage, but how much and would it be enough to justify a big cal such as the 338?

It's funny to hear a guy with a 300 Ultra call a 338 a big cailber.  :chuckle:;)

You should be able to push a 220gr Partition to an easy 2800fps from you 300. You might be able to move a 225 Partition that fast out of a 338 Win Mag, but a 220gr 30cal will have a higher SD and theoretically have better penetration.

I'll help you out. Sell me your 300 Ultra, then you can just buy a 270 and a 338. Problem solved! :tung:

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2010, 08:59:42 PM »
Yes, There is such a thing as over kill. I've seen some deer shot ,once in the shoulder, with 30-06's that where only good for burger, and noting else. The only time I've had that happen with my .270, I shot the poor thing 5 times thinking I was missing. and not wanting it to go dawn that steep hill.

A 30-06 will do no more damage to meat than a 270. They are virtually the same as far as that aspect goes. It's the type of bullet used that really makes a difference.

Both guns where shooting Cor-Loks, The 30-06 was maybe 20 yrds close. We had to take the whole left shoulder off, it was totally blood shot and bruised. The 270 broke the shoulder, but very little meat was lost. The 30-06 is a great gun and yes it is similar to the 270. but most guys shoot 150 grain bullits, very few try to find or want to pay for smaller rounds. I'm not picking on 30-06, my point is if a 30-06 would do that, then 338 would too. If you don't care all that much for the meat, then fine. I like the meat, so for deer sized animals I would opt for my 270 over my 300. For bigger animals I would opt for the 300. Just my opinion.

Again, it's not the caliber that causes excessive meat damage, it's the speed of the bullet and the type of bullet. A heavier bullet will be easier on the meat, in general. Main reason for that being that a heavier bullet will be moving at a lower speed than a lighter bullet.
Yes Bullet design has a lot to do with it. But you been smoking some thing, Heavier, larger bullets do more damage than lighter smaller. Speed has some effect, and what that is again depends on bullet design.

No, I think you've been eating some special mushrooms. If the weight of a bullet is such a determining factor in how much meat is ruined, why is it that I can shoot a deer with my 54 caliber muzzleloader and a 435 grain bullet, directly in the shoulder, and have virtually no meat loss, while the same shot with a 130 grain bullet out of a 270 Winchester will ruin BOTH shoulders?



http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/terminal


"The primary way a bullet causes damage to an animal is through the permanent cavity it leaves - the hole that is created as the bullet passes through skin, bone or flesh. "

« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 09:13:20 PM by 1bugman »

Offline 300UltraMagShooter

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2010, 09:13:05 PM »
Caliber speaks to the size of the bullet's diameter, so a .338 is bigger. 

The entire question really is, "does size matter"?   :chuckle:

In all seriousness, I'm still now sure.




I guess the next test would be to shoot big game through shoulders and non-idea spots to see which works best?  I'd imagine that a bigger (heavier/denser) bullet would have a penetration advantage, but how much and would it be enough to justify a big cal such as the 338?

It's funny to hear a guy with a 300 Ultra call a 338 a big cailber.  :chuckle:;)

You should be able to push a 220gr Partition to an easy 2800fps from you 300. You might be able to move a 225 Partition that fast out of a 338 Win Mag, but a 220gr 30cal will have a higher SD and theoretically have better penetration.

I'll help you out. Sell me your 300 Ultra, then you can just buy a 270 and a 338. Problem solved! :tung:

Andrew

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2010, 09:18:40 PM »
Sorry for jacking your thread and not being much help, but boocat had me going.


http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html

"Physical Damage/Wound channel. As well as penetrating deep enough, an effective bullet will also make as wide a wound channel as is possible. This facilitates rapid blood loss. Wound channel size is increased by bullet size, tumbling, mushrooming and bullet shape –a round nosed bullet tends to push flesh aside while a flat faced one crushes what is ahead of it, creating a more open channel. This channel caused by the bullet's path is called the permanent cavity."

 "Also, it is not how much energy the bullet has at the muzzle but how much it has at the target that is important. The same property that lets a light bullet be accelerated more readily (low inertia) also means that it can be more easily slowed by the air it is passing through. Most handgun fights take place at less than 6 metres, and light high velocity rounds are intended to give the best performance within this range. However, shots at longer ranges are by no means exceptional, and at these ranges lightweights often lack sufficient target effect."


Offline Buckmark

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2010, 09:26:00 PM »
Get a .270 weatherby, there the velocity guys are happy, the .270 guys are happy, you already have a big 30 so problem solved...
To hunt and butcher an animal is to recognize that meat is not some abstract form of protein that springs into existence tightly wrapped in cellophane and styrofoam.

Offline FC

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2010, 10:06:40 PM »
The reason there are so many Ruger upgrades is because they're necessary.

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Re: .270 vs 338
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2010, 08:34:42 PM »
I've played with both more then a little and my all around hunting rifle is a 7 rem mag. The 7 mag will hang pretty well with the 300RUM at long range but with a whole lot less recoil.

 


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