Why out of state?!

[boneaddict]

Yet we keep complaining about seeing more and more people in the woods.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

u could also get the combo, get a deer tag almost every year. plus you could hunt elk

I to hunt out of state to see other country, adventure, hunt longer. Also the mule deer hunting in this state blows!! U can go to MT in some units and pass on 20 bucks a day that u would give a left nut to see here in WA during the general season, yeah we get a few every year here to drool over, nothing like UT,NV,WY and CO.. Whitetails on the other hand, this state has great whitetails, best in the west imho

Exactly.

There is some good whitetail hunting here, provided the weather cooperates.
There could be better whitetail hunting here if the season ran through the Thanksgiving holiday weekend like it used to.

Dave,

I have to disagree on that one. I think the shorter General season is part of what makes the quality of our whitetail herd so great. Nearly all of the great whitetail states have short general seasons that are outside of the rut. At the same time we have a lot more cover than a lot of those states so I will partially concede that the deer herd would probably still be ok. I would be more inclined to say give those days back but do it in late December. It would still make for a great hunt for the general season since the deer are in their late season feeding patterns but it wouldn't catch them at their most vulnerable time.  Putting your greatest amount of hunters in the woods when the deer are the most vulnerable usually leads to a poor quality deer herd from what I have experienced. My home state of AR is an excellent example of that. 

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

I will hunt washington on permits, but the regular hunts for all the yahoos suck!!!!!

[PolarBear]

I will hunt washington on permits, but the regular hunts for all the yahoos suck!!!!!

You aint trying hard enough.
I'm thinking about hitting Alabama again.  Only a couple hundred $$ for tags and you can shoot a buck and 2 does per day.  I pass on the does but a I wouldn't mind shooting a few decent bucks.  Plus, you can hunt with a SPEAR!!

[huntnnw]

spot on DB

[boneaddict]

Its interesting how everyone thinks our deer herd or hunting in this state sucks yet always want an extended season and hunts that occur during the rut.

[WDFW-SUX]

Your right about ending the late hunts.

[rasbo]

Its interesting how everyone thinks our deer herd or hunting in this state sucks yet always want an extended season and hunts that occur during the rut.

I cant afford to hunt out of state.But I do hear exactly what your saying from many guys..The animals are here,you just gotta work for them..I hear them say there are no blackies on the wetside to speak of.They are there,and some real pigs have come out this year..Just about anywhere here if ya get off the road,there is a ton of sign..I really believe hunting shows where the guys are taking deer or elk in a half hr show has spoiled many..Its called hunting....Lotta guys spend the bucks to go elsewhere but end up with the same size critters we have here...

[boneaddict]

If it isn't easy, count 75% of the "hunters" out.

 
 

 

and I am glad for that.

[boneaddict]

What blows me away is that I have been out, seen 500 bucks, posted pics of several of them, even older age class deer, granted its the rut, but NOT winter range, posted these pics, gotten within 20 yards of these bucks during daylight hours(meaning an hour after shooting light and an hour before shooting light ends..."camera light", not 500yards with my 300RUM, haven't even touched the whitetails and blacktails yet, and folks think there are no deer in this state.   

Yes the deer herd in this state is in trouble.  Seriously with some simple fixes.......not a problem.

[krout81]

Out of state costs to much, just like non-res hunting here.  I have been to Oregon 1 time out of state with a rifle cow tag, but I didn't have to pay so I was happy to shoot a cow and share the meat. 
I have only hunted westside for the last 19 years.  Have never not been with in 80-100 yards of deer and elk during the season.  Have alyways gotten a deer when I hunted them, and I am 42% on elk.  I have seen a handful of hunters in the woods and they walked right on by.  There are less deer and elk, but they are still there.  Until I got out and dont see any sign, or any deer and elk then I am a happy Washington hunter.

[muleyguy]

According to the US FWS, Washington reported 336,652 licensed hunters in 1970
In 1980, prior to the imposition of Resource Allocation and regional elk tags, there were 360,684 licensed hunters
By 1990, after RA and regional tags: The number had dropped to 268,653
In 2000, that had declined to 214,969
In 2003, the last year for which FWS has data listed via the link below, the number was down to 194,308

looking at licensed hunter numbers in isolation does not provide an accurate picture;  it is most likely that that todays hunters, on average, hunt more days then the average tag holder in 1970 and are much more mobile and much more "motivated"  In addition, you have to look at how the public/private land issue plays into it;  it is most likely that there is a vast reduction in the amount of private ground the avg tag holder in WA has access today vs 1970.  And, finally, in response to a declining number of deer, the department has lowered the avg season length from probably 16 days to 9 days, further concentrating the hunters.

here is some simple math to see what a very plausible scenario is:

1970:   360,000 tags;  avg of 2 hunter days per tag;  33% of hunters hunted private ground;  this means there were 720,000 hunter days;  of which 475,000 hunter days were on public ground

Avg season length 16 days = 29,000 hunter days per season day

2009:  200,000 tags;  avg of 4 hunter days per tag;  20% of hunter hunted private ground;  this means there were 800,000 hunter days;  of which 640,000 hunter days were on public ground

Avg season length 9 days =  71,000 hunter days per season day;


so, that is some easy and quick math to show how looking at just tag numbers in isolation can be deceiving; and how the deer herds are being put under even more pressure even with fewer deer tags, the trends I identiftied above are real, such as reductions in private ground hunting and increased hunter days per hunter; 

it would be wonderful if there were still enough animals to simply "extend" the season out as has been suggested, but, this is simply not feasable;

if you take todays avg tag holder who is more dedicated, better equipped, the  hunter population that is willing and able to spend more time in the field, and extend their opportunities out into late October/early Nov, you are going to have a slaughter;

So, the WDFW, because it cannot deal with the hunter backlash of reducing tag numbers, takes steps like shorten the seasons, which just concentrates the hunters even more;  implements antler pt restrictions, which keeps people in the field longer (more hunter days again..........) and concentrates hunting on the more mature animals, etc 

These are all parlor tricks which just exacerbate the problem!!

here's a solution:

cut the tag numbers so you get a 33% reduction in harvest levels (no doe tags for any weapon, period.   unless targeted to ag areas or areas which do have too many deer)

extend the season out longer

get rid of the rut permits

elimination of all antler pt restrictions

this reduction in tag numbers, elimanation of antlerless tags, elimination of rut tags, and extension of the season, would result in a drastically improved "experience" in the field;  it would increase buck numbers, increase buck age structure, increase total deer numbers, spread out the hunter numbers over a wider season;

it would give us all the experience we crave:  seeing decent numbers of deer; decent numbers of bucks, and way less pumpkins on each ridge

you have to accept the reality that mule deer hunting isn't going "back to where it was" in our lifetimes;  changing habitat conditions, increasing human populations, increasing predators, etc has changed the landscape forever

I mean, what are we going to have to do in the future;  a 3 day deer season and 6 pt min antler restrictions??   

those "solutions" aren't working!!!!  They are only making the situation worse

  you need to harvest LESS bucks and ZERO does (unless needed to for overpopulation reasons) and the best way to do this is FEWER tags and FEWER people in the field.

would this solution get us back to the "way it was"??

NO;  there is a new reality...........and we have to adjust to it.

[Dave Workman]

Its interesting how everyone thinks our deer herd or hunting in this state sucks yet always want an extended season and hunts that occur during the rut.

Well, I think you may misunderstand the argument.

There might be more success, or at least more opportunity for success, if the seasons were changed to a bit later.

A late whitetail hunt in late November and/or early December would certainly pass muster with me and most of the guys I know. I particularly liked hunting the Thanksgiving weekend, though because it was an opportunity for family outings, particularly someone who wanted to hunt with his kid who came home from college for the weekend...and full disclosure here, I don't have a kid in college and even when I did, he wasn't away, but right here at home.

As any honest GAME biologist would tell you, after the rut, bucks are "excess baggage" that compete with pregnant does as the winter wears on for available food.

I'm not calling for a wholesale slaughter of antlered mature deer. That would be insane.  But for those who really enjoy their time afield and want to bring home some venison every year or two, they ought to have a genuine opportunity to do that.

And boneaddict...where did you see 500 bucks?

Location...location...location....

[fair-chase]

looking at licensed hunter numbers in isolation does not provide an accurate picture;  it is most likely that that todays hunters, on average, hunt more days then the average tag holder in 1970 and are much more mobile and much more "motivated"  In addition, you have to look at how the public/private land issue plays into it;  it is most likely that there is a vast reduction in the amount of private ground the avg tag holder in WA has access today vs 1970.  And, finally, in response to a declining number of deer, the department has lowered the avg season length from probably 16 days to 9 days, further concentrating the hunters.

here is some simple math to see what a very plausible scenario is:

1970:   360,000 tags;  avg of 2 hunter days per tag;  33% of hunters hunted private ground;  this means there were 720,000 hunter days;  of which 475,000 hunter days were on public ground

Avg season length 16 days = 29,000 hunter days per season day

2009:  200,000 tags;  avg of 4 hunter days per tag;  20% of hunter hunted private ground;  this means there were 800,000 hunter days;  of which 640,000 hunter days were on public ground

Avg season length 9 days =  71,000 hunter days per season day;


so, that is some easy and quick math to show how looking at just tag numbers in isolation can be deceiving; and how the deer herds are being put under even more pressure even with fewer deer tags, the trends I identiftied above are real, such as reductions in private ground hunting and increased hunter days per hunter; 

it would be wonderful if there were still enough animals to simply "extend" the season out as has been suggested, but, this is simply not feasable;

if you take todays avg tag holder who is more dedicated, better equipped, the  hunter population that is willing and able to spend more time in the field, and extend their opportunities out into late October/early Nov, you are going to have a slaughter;

So, the WDFW, because it cannot deal with the hunter backlash of reducing tag numbers, takes steps like shorten the seasons, which just concentrates the hunters even more;  implements antler pt restrictions, which keeps people in the field longer (more hunter days again..........) and concentrates hunting on the more mature animals, etc 

These are all parlor tricks which just exacerbate the problem!!

here's a solution:

cut the tag numbers so you get a 33% reduction in harvest levels (no doe tags for any weapon, period.   unless targeted to ag areas or areas which do have too many deer)

extend the season out longer

get rid of the rut permits

elimination of all antler pt restrictions

this reduction in tag numbers, elimanation of antlerless tags, elimination of rut tags, and extension of the season, would result in a drastically improved "experience" in the field;  it would increase buck numbers, increase buck age structure, increase total deer numbers, spread out the hunter numbers over a wider season;

it would give us all the experience we crave:  seeing decent numbers of deer; decent numbers of bucks, and way less pumpkins on each ridge

you have to accept the reality that mule deer hunting isn't going "back to where it was" in our lifetimes;  changing habitat conditions, increasing human populations, increasing predators, etc has changed the landscape forever

I mean, what are we going to have to do in the future;  a 3 day deer season and 6 pt min antler restrictions??   

those "solutions" aren't working!!!!  They are only making the situation worse

  you need to harvest LESS bucks and ZERO does (unless needed to for overpopulation reasons) and the best way to do this is FEWER tags and FEWER people in the field.

would this solution get us back to the "way it was"??

NO;  there is a new reality...........and we have to adjust to it.

That is a well thought out argument. But you will never, and I mean never get WDFW to voluntarily take a 33% decrease in deer tag sales. I doesn't matter what the benefits are, that is just too much revenue loss for them to even consider. Remember they are not in the business of managing our wildlife, just in the business of selling tags.

[muleyguy]

But you will never, and I mean never get WDFW to voluntarily take a 33% decrease in deer tag sales.

increase the tag cost by 33% and that solves the problem;

that is an increase of $15;  to take a 3 day hunting trip with your family probably cost upwards of $500;  that is a small increase to pay in order to have a much better experience