Montana Combo Licenses

[muleyguy]

You have the money, you can go do it, is really that simple.

not to belabor the point.....but, please explain to me how if MT issues 4600 deer combination licenses, and there are 14,000 people apply, and, there is absoulutely no ability to "buy" your tag if you do not get drawn, how you can "buy your way into it" ?


you are simply wrong in your analysis and want to keep on arguing;

let me explain it, in simple mathmatical terms for you:

4600 tags;  14,000 people apply

NO ABILITY TO BUY A TAG IF YOU DO NOT GET DRAWN

is it really that complicated for you to understand??

in MT, you CANNOT BUY YOUR WAY INTO A TAG anymore.............last year, yes;  this year, NO

if you want to get into an argument about what the facts are, it really is better if you know what the facts are going into the argument.........

[Tony 270]

Deer tag, elk tag, combo tag - I really don't care. They are all overpriced. You keep going off on some point about X number of tags available and have a point about that. Similar to a baseball or football game in that there are X number of seats and if they sell out, you're SOL. My point, try and keep up, is that it is not some great priveledge to go hunt there and you seem to have the attitude that non-res guys should get down on their knees and kiss your feet for that great, special, mind blowing, earth shattering, life changing priveledge. It is a business transaction, nothing more. People pay, people get the tag. Anything else? 

[bobcat]

Geez- Tony 270 if you think the price is too high then don't go to Montana. Simple as that.

[Tony 270]

Geez, said I wasn't going to. Simple as that.

[muleyguy]

Deer tag, elk tag, combo tag - I really don't care. They are all overpriced. You keep going off on some point about X number of tags available and have a point about that. Similar to a baseball or football game in that there are X number of seats and if they sell out, you're SOL. My point, try and keep up, is that it is not some great priveledge to go hunt there and you seem to have the attitude that non-res guys should get down on their knees and kiss your feet for that great, special, mind blowing, earth shattering, life changing priveledge. It is a business transaction, nothing more. People pay, people get the tag. Anything else?

ahh, we finally get to the point.....your just pissed that you cannot afford the price and other's can........

My point, try and keep up, is that it is not some great priveledge to go hunt there and you seem to have the attitude that non-res guys should get down on their knees and kiss your feet for that great, special, mind blowing, earth shattering, life changing priveledge.

unfortunately for you, there is plenty of other non-residents that can afford to hunt there ,and will gladly pay the increased fees......

the reality is that it is a "great priveledge" to hunt in MT if you do not live there......the put out a great product;  that is evidenced by the fact tat 90% of people on this website are falling all over themselves to get there.....and, can't wait to get back to WA to post pictures of what they got, and how many bucks they saw, and how they passed up 50" mainframe bucks the first 10 minutes they were there.........(I know, it is tough when all you have seen is 2 pts your whole life, so the first time you see a 23" buck you think it is B&C..........)

[Tony 270]

You are a retard. Go back and read previous posts, but I worry if you still don't get it now, you never will.

[muleyguy]

You are a retard.

They are all overpriced

the two money quotes that get at the heart of the matter.........

[muleyguy]

since you called me a retard, we will keep the post going a little longer........

They are all overpriced.

you like to say it is just a business transaction;  and, for non-residents tags, you are exactly correct, it is a business transaction for the residents of MT, as well as it should be..

so, I guess we actually agree.......

but, you just couldn't help yourself....you had to blurp out "they are all overpriced"......and  "you seem to have the attitude that non-res guys should get down on their knees and kiss your feet for that great, special, mind blowing, earth shattering, life changing priveledge"............. that tells me exactly what I need to know....you put up this front that it is "all supply and demand"  and "all about money".....when, in reality, you are just frustrated that they have raised the tag prices.........

because, if you understood the concept of supply and demand, and price, you would realize that MT tags are most certainly NOT OVERPRICED;  when 10,000 people apply for 2300 tags, that means the tag is UNDERPRICED.

economics does not have emotion, and, you are certainly injecting lots of emotion into it......your comments make this very apparant...........so don't go giving me all this "economics lesson" when in reality your argument is just an emotional one.

[spookgus]

The fee increase was voted on by the people of Montana. The banning of bait and hounds for bear and mountain lion was voted on by the people of Washington. The western states are being controlled by the ultra-liberal voters and officials from their cities and Federal government. Flooding the ecosystem with predators and increasing the cost of hunting is part of the ultra-liberal plan to end recreational hunting. They believe it is more humane to feed and mature artificially the feed lot cow. Feed lots are needed to feed the nation but don't tell me the feed lot cow had a better life than the deer I just harvested. Killing animals is OK as long as you do not enjoy it.

[bobcat]

Well, I think the people of Montana who voted for this initiative included many hunters, and not "ultra liberals." In fact I think it was the hunters in the state who got this initiative started and got it passed. And if I was a Montana resident, I probably would have voted for it myself.

[spookgus]

The resident licence should include the state you live in and any federal land in the union, if you pay federal income tax.

[Machias]

Well, I think the people of Montana who voted for this initiative included many hunters, and not "ultra liberals." In fact I think it was the hunters in the state who got this initiative started and got it passed. And if I was a Montana resident, I probably would have voted for it myself.

Yep, I have been trying to educate myself on this Initiative by reading the resident's comments on the Bowsite.  It had allot of support from Montana's resident hunters.  Some feel they do not know all the consequences (who ever does) but seems there may be a rift now between landowners and hunters.  I think this story is just beginning.

[BAR C3]

Well, I think the people of Montana who voted for this initiative included many hunters, and not "ultra liberals." In fact I think it was the hunters in the state who got this initiative started and got it passed. And if I was a Montana resident, I probably would have voted for it myself.

Yep, I have been trying to educate myself on this Initiative by reading the resident's comments on the Bowsite.  It had allot of support from Montana's resident hunters.  Some feel they do not know all the consequences (who ever does) but seems there may be a rift now between landowners and hunters.  I think this story is just beginning.

BINGO! My point exactly! Those land owners are going to ask for more $$$$ now. The money they get for some of the spreads over there will never be matched by the Game Department. 
So why would I pay more for tags and more to lease the land when I can go to Colorado and have a quality hunt. A group of my friends went over there last month first time and all five tagged out. One shot a 350+ bull. They had two bonus points. It was a DIY on Public Land.

[Bigshooter]

for the deer combination license last year, there were 11,500 applicants for 2300 tags;  and 2300 tags allocated  to the guaranteed program; of which virtually all were filled;

with the new legistlation, the number of deer combination licenses will be increased to 4600 total, but, the guaranteed ones will be eliminated;

the people who normally apply for the guaranteed tag will now just apply for the draw;

that puts the estimated number of people applying for the deer combination tag at about 14,000 people next year (give or take) going for 4600 tags;  so 10,000 people are going to bow out of applying because of the higher fees??  I highly doubt it.

the big game combination draw had 17,700 applicants last year and 5600 guaranteed tags;  the guaranteed tags haven't been selling quite out each year, but, have been very close;  so, now about 23,500 people will be applying for a total of 17,000 big game tags;  so, 6000 people are going to have to bow out of, just to get to 100% draw.

the reason Idaho started having left over tags is because they simply priced it too high relative to the "product" they were delivering;  idaho has had a rapidly declining mule deer population, has vast wilderness areas that are too steep and have too little vehicle access for most people and for most of the state does not allow hunting during the rut.

the thread entitled "Washington Invades Montana" is no joke; for those of us who have been hunting there the last 25 yrs, it is staggering the amount of WA guys going there now vs even 10 yrs ago.............the invasion is not going to stop because of a couple of hundred dollars........for the 10 of you on Hunting-WA that bow out of the drawing because of the higher tag fees, 500 will be lining up to take your place.......

case law clearly demonstrates who "owns" deer and elk and it clearly demonstrates who gets to "manage" those deer and elk by state;  you each might want to change it, or think otherwise, but, the law is clear.  and, your definition of priveledge can be whatever you want;  bottom line is the law is, that as a WA resident, you have no rights to MT wildlife, unless the state of montana says you do.......kind of like you have no right to ice cream from mommy and daddy when you are 8 yrs old unless they say you do........

I like this post.  It show how the numbers are going to work.  I believe that Montana will sell every tag they have this year.  The only thing that I don't agree on is the "case law".  A few years ago the courts ruled that states could not discriminated against nonresidents.  Meaning nonresidents and residents should have equal rights to draw tags.  It wasn't until Harry Reid attached some language to a military bill that got passed that said it was up to the state to decide how draw tags were issued.  The case was brought up by Arizona outfitters if I remember right.  I won't be suprise if Montana outfitters take this to court.

[hunterofelk]

I am a former Montana resident.  I moved to Washington because I wanted to make a better living.  The residents of Montana, want to keep the deer and elk to themselves. I know because I thought the nonresidents were rich, spoiled people shooting up the country. Listen to a resident and you'll hear them grumble about the cost of a hunting license.  The long season, the amount of public land, and the low population density are just a few of the reasons people live there.  For me, the cost of the licenses verses the hunting experience became uneven after the last fee increase.  It sucks, but vacations are major events these days.