Daily Bag Limit/Possession Limit?

[Fishnclifff]

I have had this same talk with different wardens. They have all agreed with me.

There is 1 standard given by the gov't pertaining to possesion limits-- ie-- the FIELD POSSESION LIMIT.
Unlike fishing regulations, the waterfowl regs do not contain language requiring a limit be in a processed form.

Now

Please post the state and or federal laws that state you can only have 2 possesion limits at any time, any where. Your home, freezer, or where ever.

If this was the case, noone could accumulate enuf meat to make jerky.

[goober]

The only reason I bother replying to this is so some one new doesn't get into trouble by following what you believe to be true.

First, you have to understand that there are two different LEO agencies, State and Federal, that have juristiction over this. Each has a different interpretation of the law. The State views possession limit ceasing once you reach your place of residence (not your vehicle as you stated, if this were true then you could go on a week long trip, stay in your camper and shoot 7 birds each day without being in jeapordy and drive home withn 49 birds in your possesion). The Feds however, view the possesion of a bird to cease ONCE IT IS CONSUMED. Now, in the day to day scope of things we most often have contact with State LEO and if you asked everyone of them about the interpretation they would tell you that it ends once you reach home (thereby, one could save up enough birds to make sausage). However, this wouldn't make you safe because there are a few Federal LEO running around out there who, if they did have the reason to check your freezer, would cite you for being over the limit. It doesn't happen often and usually only when you are being investigated for another charge, but it does happen.

The important element to all of this is that the Federal interpretation of this law supercedes the State's interpretation of this law.
 
 If you want to feel safe thinking that you know everything about the law, that's fine. However, you shouldn't come on here spreading info that could someone into trouble by following your advice.

[Gopher]

WAC 232-28-434 Agency filings affecting this section 
2010-11 Migratory waterfowl seasons and regulations.
  DUCKS

Statewide

Oct. 16-20, 2010 and Oct. 23, 2010 - Jan. 30, 2011; except scaup season closed Oct. 16 - Nov. 5.

Special youth hunting weekend open only to hunters 15 years of age or under (must be accompanied by an adult at least 18 years old who is not hunting): Sept. 25-26, 2010.

Daily bag limit: 7 ducks, to include not more than 2 hen mallard, 2 pintail, 3 scaup, 1 canvasback, and 2 redhead statewide; and to include not more than 1 harlequin, 2 scoter, 2 long-tailed duck, and 2 goldeneye in Western Washington.

Possession limit: 14 ducks, to include not more than 4 hen mallard, 4 pintail, 6 scaup, 2 canvasback, and 4 redhead statewide; and to include not more than 1 harlequin, 4 scoter, 4 long-tailed duck, and 4 goldeneye in Western Washington.
Season limit: 1 harlequin in Western Washington.

AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED TO HUNT SEA DUCKS

Here is the WAC and it's the same as what the regulation pamphlet says.  Doesn't say anything about where you are or condition.....says 14 ducks for possession limit.  I also called the USFWS office in Redmond yesterday and talked to the head guy there and he told me the possession limit is 14.......period.

[bigtex]

The only reason I bother replying to this is so some one new doesn't get into trouble by following what you believe to be true.

First, you have to understand that there are two different LEO agencies, State and Federal, that have juristiction over this. Each has a different interpretation of the law. The State views possession limit ceasing once you reach your place of residence (not your vehicle as you stated, if this were true then you could go on a week long trip, stay in your camper and shoot 7 birds each day without being in jeapordy and drive home withn 49 birds in your possesion). The Feds however, view the possesion of a bird to cease ONCE IT IS CONSUMED. Now, in the day to day scope of things we most often have contact with State LEO and if you asked everyone of them about the interpretation they would tell you that it ends once you reach home (thereby, one could save up enough birds to make sausage). However, this wouldn't make you safe because there are a few Federal LEO running around out there who, if they did have the reason to check your freezer, would cite you for being over the limit. It doesn't happen often and usually only when you are being investigated for another charge, but it does happen.

The important element to all of this is that the Federal interpretation of this law supercedes the State's interpretation of this law.
 
 If you want to feel safe thinking that you know everything about the law, that's fine. However, you shouldn't come on here spreading info that could someone into trouble by following your advice.

Actually Gopher the way the enforcement of migratory waterfowl enforcement works is that the USFWS deptuzies every state wildlife enforcement agency to enforce USFWS laws. So when a WDFW (or any other state) Officer contacts you during duck season he is actually using federal authority. Every migratory waterfowl violation that takes place can actually be cited in state or federal courts, the violation in federal court would be a violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. The states are not really the decision makers when it comes to waterfowl seasons, there are strict restrictions that the states must follow, such as season length and other federal regulations.

[bigtex]

Per the USFWS Migratory Bird Treaty Act which EVERY state must follow:

TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES
 
 CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE
                          INTERIOR (CONTINUED)
 
PART 20_MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING--Table of Contents
 
                          Subpart D_Possession
 
Sec. 20.35  Field possession limit.

    No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the
daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of
migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place
where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land
transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient
place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d)
a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

[goober]

Actually Gopher the way the enforcement of migratory waterfowl enforcement works is that the USFWS deptuzies every state wildlife enforcement agency to enforce USFWS laws. So when a WDFW (or any other state) Officer contacts you during duck season he is actually using federal authority. Every migratory waterfowl violation that takes place can actually be cited in state or federal courts, the violation in federal court would be a violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

This is true, but talk to a state LEO and he'll tell you that they won't seek out a violation by checking your home, unless it is to follow up on another violation.

The states are not really the decision makers when it comes to waterfowl seasons, there are strict restrictions that the states must follow, such as season length and other federal regulations.
[/quote]

[/font]The Feds set the framework and give the states the authority to make the season or bag limit MORE restrictive, but not less restrictive.

[goober]

Per the USFWS Migratory Bird Treaty Act which EVERY state must follow:

TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES
 
 CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE
                          INTERIOR (CONTINUED)
 
PART 20_MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING--Table of Contents
 
                          Subpart D_Possession
 
Sec. 20.35  Field possession limit.

    No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the
daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of
migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place
where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land
transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient
place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d)
a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

Once again, correct, notice that it says shall not possess AT his automobile....or his personal abode.

[Fishnclifff]

Per the USFWS Migratory Bird Treaty Act which EVERY state must follow:

TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES
 
 CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE
                          INTERIOR (CONTINUED)
 
PART 20_MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING--Table of Contents
 
                          Subpart D_Possession
 
Sec. 20.35  Field possession limit.

    No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the
daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of
migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place
where taken and either[/b] (a) his automobile or principal means of land
transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient
place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d)
a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

Once again, correct, notice that it says shall not possess AT his automobile....or his personal abode.

It does not say "shall not possess AT his automobile....or his personal abode.
."
See the bold print above --- it says clearly----at or between the place where taken and either--- notice the parenthesis around all the choices in the statement? They separate the sentence into parts after the word either.

Here is the explanation that was given to me by the Fed gammie in the Skagit district---

If what you say is true--- a person who shot their limit of 7 ducks, everyday of the season, would harvest 728 ducks---7 x 104 days.
according to your position, that person would have to eat 7 ducks per day, for 102 of the 104 days.

Her words--" that is absurd."

I will ask again:  State the federal law or state law that restricts you to 14 ducks in your freezer during a 104 day season.

[Fishnclifff]

Per the USFWS Migratory Bird Treaty Act which EVERY state must follow:

TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES
 
 CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE
                          INTERIOR (CONTINUED)
 
PART 20_MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING--Table of Contents
 
                          Subpart D_Possession
 
Sec. 20.35  Field possession limit.

    No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the
daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of
migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place
where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land
transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient
place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d)
a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

[/b]
Once again, you have to read all the words in a sentence. This reg. applies to the DAILY LIMIT   AND    THE  AGGREGATE DAILY LIMIT

2ag·gre·gate verb \ˈa-gri-ˌgāt\
ag·gre·gat·edag·gre·gat·ing
Definition of AGGREGATE
transitive verb
1: to collect or gather into a mass or whole
2: to amount to (a whole sum or total) : total

So we see class,  this 1 single federal regulation gives us all the answers to __ what is the daily limit? and How many ducks or geese can we be in posession of while hunting? IE---

The daily limit is 7.

You may not possess more than the aggregate limit ( 14)
 at or between the place
where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land
transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient
place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d)
a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

[goober]

HaHa, I'm beginning to think that you're a guy that just likes to argue or feel that he is always right. Either way, my responses weren't meant to try to convince you of anything cause I don't care how many ducks you have in your freezer. Rather, they were intended to warn unsuspecting hunters that there is some confusion about the law and that they need to satisfy their questions through their own research.

For myself, if I ask a Federal warden if he would cite me if he found more than 14 ducks (per household member) in my freezer and he says 'Yes', I don't need to see the law in print. I consider myself to be fairly warned.

You really ought to call a Federal officer and debate it with him because it is obvious that there isn't anyone here that knows as much as you do.

[Fishnclifff]

Read the above posts. I did have this talk with a federal game officer, she agreed with me.

The federal law has been posted more than once. Reaqd it. there is nothing in it about your freezer or what you have in your house, ONLY, what you possess while hunting in the field.

A person on this board associated with wildlife law enforcement, BigTex,, posted the same exact federal regulation for you to follow.

Every hunter at the Ridgefield Wildlife Refuge that i talked with about this, including the  Fed. agent that runs the place, is in agreement with me.
What more do you want?
 You cannot provide proof of a fed. or state reg. that states you cant have more than 14 in your freezer.

Every hunter reading this is learning what the ONLY fed. regulation posted is telling all of us.

[Gopher]

BUT.......The STATE LAW says the possession limit is 14.  Doesn't say anything about to or from.  Says possession limit.  I got corrected above for saying that state law trumps federal law.  Well, it does here.  Just like the state law against using motorized decoys.  Federal law allows it, Washington state law doesn't.  Federal law has some extra wording in it about possession in the field.....state law doesn't.

[bobcat]

Any lawyers on here?     

I've never really known the answer to this issue but I tend to agree with Gopher. The state law says the possession limit is 14 and that's that. You can't have more than 14 in your possession, and that includes in your freezer at your home. However, I also know that law enforcement wont go around searching people's freezer so for all intents and purposes the law really only affects what you have in your possession before you get home.

I've always thought it to be kind of ridiculous that someone who lives close to where they hunt really does not have to follow the possession limit because they take can take their daily limit home every day and put them in the freezer, whereas guys who are camping or staying in a motel, can only hunt for two or three days (depending on species)before they have to cut the hunting trip short and go home.

[sakoshooter]

I skipped ahead so I missed a couple pages but I will say this: I was on the volunteer duck/goose reporting program for the Dept of Interior for quite a few years. The first few years I simply filled out their form(they sent me)listing each duck/goose species, gender and county taken. After a few years of this, the Dept asked me to participate in their 'wing' program. They sent me the envelopes and I filled them out and returned them with duck/goose wings in them. Most of these years I harvested approximately 75 ducks and a dozen geese.
Not once in all those years was I ever asked if I had more than 14 ducks in my freezer. 75 is more than 14.
Actually I started in the program when the limit was 5 and dropped to 4 for a couple years. Even then I was never asked if I had more than the possession limit in my freezer.
I read the same thing in the regs you guys read but for a lot of years now Iv'e gone by the same rules for possession as was explained to me years ago. Daily limit means just that. Period. Possession means you can shoot a daily limit two days in a row(IE: a two day hunting trip)and still be legal transporting said possession limit to your house for processing.
To say that a duck hunter can only have a possession limit in his freezer at any given time is absurd.
To put this in perspective: A deer or elk hunter(example)could not harvest a deer during the 2011 season if said hunter still had venison cut/wrapped in his freezer from 2010. Since you can only harvest one deer/elk, having meat from more than one deer/elk in your possession at one time would be a violation.
I could go on and on if you want to bring fish into the picture but I think we get the point. I'm not trying to be a jerk but the question originally asked has been lost in the argument that followed.
I've had my dealing with the State and Feds also. Sometimes common sense in not part of the discussion.  Half the time neither knows what the other is doing.
Bottom line and something I do(when I'm lucky enough to shoot a limit twice in two days)often is to take a possession limit and transport it to my house. I feel confident and safe and legal doing this.

[Bob33]

Any lawyers on here?    

I've never really known the answer to this issue but I tend to agree with Gopher. The state law says the possession limit is 14 and that's that. You can't have more than 14 in your possession, and that includes in your freezer at your home. However, I also know that law enforcement wont go around searching people's freezer so for all intents and purposes the law really only affects what you have in your possession before you get home.

I've always thought it to be kind of ridiculous that someone who lives close to where they hunt really does not have to follow the possession limit because they take can take their daily limit home every day and put them in the freezer, whereas guys who are camping or staying in a motel, can only hunt for two or three days (depending on species)before they have to cut the hunting trip short and go home.

I don't think it is very likely anyone's freezer will be examined.  However, with big game I keep the tags in the freezer because it is required until the meat is consumed.

I agree with Bobcat: it does not seem logical that you could shoot 14 ducks, take them home to your freezer, and keep on hunting but if you put them in a cooler at your hunt location, you're done.

Also, if I need to move someday: does this mean I can only take 14 ducks per trip from one house to the other?