$30 Access Permit for State Lands (WDFW, DNR, & Parks)

[raekmike]

point taken tex.....unfortunately i'll just be probably dropping some of my licensing to compensate which is what i suspect many others will do and their projections for fund raising will fall substantially short of what they are expecting..

and when i pull $30 worth of license out it will take it all out of the wdfw fund....
when i pay the new $30 fee they will only get a couple dollars....and parks get the rest....

If this scenario happens all it will do is HURT hunting......

[billythekidrock]

You guys who are so against this fee- what would you propose the state should do in order to maintain the services they are now providing? At least with something like this, EVERYBODY pays, not just people with a hunting and/or fishing license. If you ride a mountain bike, hike, shoot guns, pick flowers, bird watch, photograph wildlife, etc. on state lands, you will now have to pay a fee. I like the idea that non-hunters will have to pay their share.

The problem is the nonpaying public that will continue not to pay and not enough enforcement, or lack of commitment to enforce it. If I am paying more then I don't want to be bothered by those that don't.

There is absolutely no way they can enforce this at a manageable level.

[billythekidrock]

so what exactly is capital forest?  does it apply to there?

DNR and yes it would apply there.

So take this small piece of land as an example. There are about 8 official entrances always open to the public and there are a few more that are opened temporarily for logging and I have found at least a dozen different quad trails coming in off private propert (I am sure there are a lot more than that).

How are they going to enforce this pass?
There are not enough officers (or time) to check people on a regular basis in the CF so the only way they will be able to "enforce" this is through the occasional contacts on the occasion that the officer is in the CF.

[bigtex]

so what exactly is capital forest?  does it apply to there?

DNR and yes it would apply there.

How are they going to enforce this pass?
There are not enough officers (or time) to check people on a regular basis in the CF so the only way they will be able to "enforce" this is through the occasional contacts on the occasion that the officer is in the CF.

I don't understand the whole "how are they going to enforce? questions. Currently one of the most commonly written tickets by WDFW Officers is not having the Vehicle Use Permit. How would simply changing the permit name change the level of enforcement? It will actually increase enforcement level. Currently only WDFW Officers enforce the permits, you would now have DNR and WDFW Officers enforcing the permits on their land. So how would they enforce it? The same way they have for past 10 years.

[billythekidrock]

point taken tex.....unfortunately i'll just be probably dropping some of my licensing to compensate which is what i suspect many others will do and their projections for fund raising will fall substantially short of what they are expecting..

and when i pull $30 worth of license out it will take it all out of the wdfw fund....
when i pay the new $30 fee they will only get a couple dollars....and parks get the rest....

If this scenario happens all it will do is HURT hunting......

I agree and we have had to do that the last two years. My wife and I have state jobs and live within our means with hunting as our primary source of recreation. We don't have crazy cell phones or cable packages. Matter of fact I am writing this on dial up. This year we were not able to apply for all of our usual permits due to the new crappy system. With the increase in gas and power and general cost of living, we gave up fishing (we also gave up going to the movies and going out to dinner). It is not just the fee of the combo license, but everything else that goes with fishing. I still have my gear and may fish more in the future, but something else will have to go.

The price of gas will be up to $4 in a couple months and up to $5 by next year but our wages won't go up at all. Right now I run up into the CF every day to check a couple traps. I am doing it for fun, but it is also theropudic in a way. Now throw in another $30 fee for this pass with an increase in gas? Why would I do it? I could find value in it if the garbage dumpers, methheads and joe blows who won't pay this fee were not in the woods, but I know that won't happen. With dwindling funds, I need to find value in how I spend my money. Recently I am seeing less and less value in my hunting licenses.

If we have to pay for this pass who does the money go to? Not enought of it to F&W. But if I have to buy the pass then I may have to give up the small game or trapping license. How much of that goes to F&W? Which hurts F&W more?

I don't mind paying as long as everyone else is paying their share. What I don't like is restricted access to state lands. We have been paying for them through taxes forever and now they want to "tax" us more. The only one that like this bill are the ones that can afford it and hope it keeps others out of the woods.

What about the youth that are just getting by? I often see young guys spending time in the woods. I would rather see them there then on the streets.
What about the handicapped guy I see that just likes to take his coffee for a drive?
How about those on a fixed income? How is a retired person supposed afford this? I know a few old timers that buy a hunting license every year just so they can sped a few hours in the woods, but now you throw a $30 fee on top?

What ever happened to F&W's "Go Play"?
Maybe it means "Go Play, but not on state lands"?  

[Ray]

This is lame. Yet another tax and yet another parking permit to purchase in order to line some bureacrat's wallet.

[Special T]

FOLLOW THE MONEY!  I'd bet lunch that they have some good inside info on this... Hunters talk tough but most just keep paying... That is what they are banking on.. Does no one remember the State Parks "Parking Fee" a few years back? it was like $2-5 a day... Anyone remember what happened? I do, they were empty! I have a relative that is a State park ranger... He said there were so few people coming it was hard to justify the existence of some parks...  According to him many lower income people use state parks as day trips for the family.... They reacted more to the price than any other group. On the other hand you have Hunters and fishermen who are less price sensitive to fee increases... You might cut how often you go but would not stop. (I'm speaking generally as a group.)  Once again the state leans on its hunters to pay for stuff... I would bet that many hunters don't even go to the park that often... I would prefer the quiet woods to the park..

This isn't any different than so many other ways the state steals from one group to pay for another... I like the basic idea of EVERYONE paying to play but as we see here the Devil is in the details... Parks cost money DNR makes money, WDFW lands don't cost much... Since i mostly use DNR and WDFW land why does it mostly go to parks?  Because  from history we know that the people visiting parks on a daily basis are unwilling to pay for the use...  Its all about the money and most of us suckers are gona pay it...

[SCRUBS]

point taken tex.....unfortunately i'll just be probably dropping some of my licensing to compensate which is what i suspect many others will do and their projections for fund raising will fall substantially short of what they are expecting..

and when i pull $30 worth of license out it will take it all out of the wdfw fund....
when i pay the new $30 fee they will only get a couple dollars....and parks get the rest....

If this scenario happens all it will do is HURT hunting......

I agree and we have had to do that the last two years. My wife and I have state jobs and live within our means with hunting as our primary source of recreation. We don't have crazy cell phones or cable packages. Matter of fact I am writing this on dial up. This year we were not able to apply for all of our usual permits due to the new crappy system. With the increase in gas and power and general cost of living, we gave up fishing (we also gave up going to the movies and going out to dinner). It is not just the fee of the combo license, but everything else that goes with fishing. I still have my gear and may fish more in the future, but something else will have to go.

The price of gas will be up to $4 in a couple months and up to $5 by next year but our wages won't go up at all. Right now I run up into the CF every day to check a couple traps. I am doing it for fun, but it is also theropudic in a way. Now throw in another $30 fee for this pass with an increase in gas? Why would I do it? I could find value in it if the garbage dumpers, methheads and joe blows who won't pay this fee were not in the woods, but I know that won't happen. With dwindling funds, I need to find value in how I spend my money. Recently I am seeing less and less value in my hunting licenses.

If we have to pay for this pass who does the money go to? Not enought of it to F&W. But if I have to buy the pass then I may have to give up the small game or trapping license. How much of that goes to F&W? Which hurts F&W more?

I don't mind paying as long as everyone else is paying their share. What I don't like is restricted access to state lands. We have been paying for them through taxes forever and now they want to "tax" us more. The only one that like this bill are the ones that can afford it and hope it keeps others out of the woods.

What about the youth that are just getting by? I often see young guys spending time in the woods. I would rather see them there then on the streets.
What about the handicapped guy I see that just likes to take his coffee for a drive?
How about those on a fixed income? How is a retired person supposed afford this? I know a few old timers that buy a hunting license every year just so they can sped a few hours in the woods, but now you throw a $30 fee on top?

What ever happened to F&W's "Go Play"?
Maybe it means "Go Play, but not on state lands"?  

Very well said BTKR.

[bobcat]

You guys who are so against this fee- what would you propose the state should do in order to maintain the services they are now providing? At least with something like this, EVERYBODY pays, not just people with a hunting and/or fishing license. If you ride a mountain bike, hike, shoot guns, pick flowers, bird watch, photograph wildlife, etc. on state lands, you will now have to pay a fee. I like the idea that non-hunters will have to pay their share.

The problem is the nonpaying public that will continue not to pay and not enough enforcement, or lack of commitment to enforce it. If I am paying more then I don't want to be bothered by those that don't.

There is absolutely no way they can enforce this at a manageable level.

I'm not sure I like this particular legislation either. I just like the idea of other users paying their share. I'm not sure how well it would be enforced. Not even sure how many people would know it was required to be on state land. I had assumed that if they did come up with an idea for this, that hunters/fishermen would be exempt. The pass should be included with the purchase of a hunting or fishing license.

[Sumpnneedskillin]

I have two problems with this.  State parks gets 85% of the monies and you have to pay $30 for each vehicle.  If the pass was transferable between vehicles and the monies were evenly split between the 3 agencies I might be more supportive.

[bobcat]

I don't believe it's $30 for each vehicle. That just wouldn't make sense.

[Sumpnneedskillin]

I don't believe it's $30 for each vehicle. That just wouldn't make sense.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/5622.pdf
Page 2 line 26

(2) Cost of the discover pass is thirty dollars per vehicle.

[Wacenturion]

This is lame. Yet another tax and yet another parking permit to purchase in order to line some bureacrat's wallet.

Agree completely.  Last fee was for sold on improvements, toilets etc.  Just go check out your favorite WDFW boat launch.  Custodial at best...no improvements to speak of, run down, lack of pride.  It's really a shame as that is the first line of advertisement for the Department.  Their message....we don't give a crap.

Wildlife areas....for 40 plus years......custodial, no budget lands.  WDFW never has taken pride in them.  The only attention they get is a redundancy of new planning efforts every 7-10 years.  What a joke, just like this new fee.  It nothing more than an attempt to fund parks at the expense of hunters and fishermen.  Kind of like the $5 fee you didn't know you were paying to support Parks when you renewed your vehicle license, and you had to tell them no to opt out.  Otherwise you paid it without knowing.

Again less opportunity for increased fees.  Don't they get it....tax people more and they quit doing it....everyone losses....including the Department as revenues go in the toilet even more.

[bobcat]

I don't believe it's $30 for each vehicle. That just wouldn't make sense.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/5622.pdf
Page 2 line 26

(2) Cost of the discover pass is thirty dollars per vehicle.

Yes I have read that, but I don't see where it says you can't transfer from one vehicle to another. Just like the current access permit for WDFW lands, you hang it from the rear view mirror in whatever vehicle you are driving that day.

[bobcat]

A question I have is what would happen with the current "Vehicle Use Permit" that is required for certain WDFW access areas? It's $12, or free with the purchase of a hunting or fishing license. Will that still be required? If not, the WDFW is losing $12 for all those who purchase that permit, and only getting $2.25 from the purchaser's of this new permit.

Vehicle Use Permit


Do I Need a Vehicle Use Permit?
Anyone entering or using a WDFW improved access facility is required to display a current WDFW Vehicle Use Permit. (See Revised Code of Washington 77.32.380) Access sites are clearly identified areas specifically created for motor vehicle parking. View WDFW Wildlife Areas and Water Access Sites.

Vehicle Use Permits may designate up to two vehicles for use.
Permits must be placed in full view from outside the vehicle. Please have the license plate number(s) of the vehicle written in the space provided on the permit.
Complimentary Vehicle Use Permits are issued to:

The licensee with the first purchase of an annual hunting or annual fishing license (excluding shellfish licenses).
Purchaser of a Watchable Wildlife Decal package.