$30 Access Permit for State Lands (WDFW, DNR, & Parks)

[sakoshooter]

Just sent an email to Gov Gregoire asking for a reduced fee for hunters/fishermen since we already have a percentage of our license fees paying for some of these programs and have for years.

[KopperBuck]

Here's my latest reply...

Dear Senator Baxter, Representative Crouse, and Representative Shea:

I would like to express my concern regarding SB 5622 and HB 1796. My issue is NOT with a fee for service model, I'm worried about how the funds are divided and where the priorities lay.

I don't feel that an 8% share for WDFW and DNR each is adequate, or fair. As a dedicated sportsman I tend to use DNR and WDFW lands more often, yes, but I also take advantage of our State Parks, so I hope you don't feel I am biased. But the lopsided revenue sharing model is impossible to ignore. Along with those percentages, here are few other examples that worry me.

What resources are required to manage State Parks vs. DNR and WDFW lands? And by manage, I mean to manage according to a plan often required of farmers and ranchers, or others that own land? DNR and WDFW are already stretched to the max, yet every time I visit a State Park I see numerous employees and equipment. Where’s the balance? With these new increased costs and passes will there also be increased enforcement? And who will that task fall on? DNR and WDFW? We’re already short on that, visit any WDFW boat launch and you’ll see that – every day there are vehicles without passes. Where will the increased compensation be?

WDFW and DOL would be required to make these passes available through their systems, but the State Parks aren't required, but have the option. Costs are higher for WDFW and another separate agency, while State Parks may not absorb any cost.

It states that individuals who pay for campsites are not required to pay for a discovery pass, but those who pay for a license through WDFW may purchase a discounted pass of $7 to access WDFW lands only. Where's the balance here? Are campsite fees being raised? Wouldn't it benefit State Parks to charge a fee as well, otherwise it seems contradictory. Not only is WDFW getting a smaller share, but they're also charging their clients an increased fee. State Parks gets a larger share but is giving their users a break on cost.

My last concern has to do with the rising cost of this pass. It was stated that it needs to be reevaluated every 1-2 years for inflation. Is there a plan to keep costs down, or will we continue to make it so expensive to recreate that we'll be moving towards a European system, where only the rich and famous can recreate? We're already seeing this in parts of our Western states, let's not out price our heritage.

I urge you to consider the details in this bill. As I stated before, I'm willing to help the cause, but I do not see the balance in these bills. DNR and WDFW need better representation, otherwise we're only benefiting a specific market at the expense of everyone. A point of mention – in your district your constituents are very close to Idaho. I am not the only who would or has considered a short move into Idaho to recreate. As Western states tinker with their management systems they’re not just pushing non-residents away, but also they’re own.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Skyvalhunter]

I think you have some very well documented concerns that should be addressed.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 I see no news on these bills since Feb 15, so I would say they are dead. Thank you Kirk,Val,and Dan.

[Jingles]

I find this ironic that just the other day I was talking to an enforcement officer about this very subject and it was his opinion that this fee was ridiculous and that he would have a very tough time writing a ticket for not having the pass. " I would probably write a warning and post it on their windshield instead of writing a ticket"  Here is a question for everyone  these are PUBLIC lands ( DNR WDFW) and the Public paid for them already so why should we have to pay to use something that is already ours. AS far as the State parks are concerned there should be a $10.00 per day fee for use.  Yes use would probably drop off for awhile but then it would rebound.  Beside why do the State Parks need 30 people working every day??? Heaven already knows that the WDFW lands here in the Methow are mismanaged so they can't use the excuse that it takes money to manage these lands.  Plus if the State would quit spending Millions and millions of $ every year to purchase land here in the Methow and actually manage the land they already have the Deer herds would be better the small game would be better.  Quantity DOES NOT equal Quality and the idiots in Olympia think it does just ask them about the quality of the Mule deer herd verses the quality of the herd all they are concerned with is the number of deer so they can sell more licenses.
Maybe the State should take a lesson from the private sector of businesses.  I want more land for my business but I don't have the money for it so I guess I'll have to wait until I do.   Oh does that mean I have to cut my spending somewhere else so I can save for it? yep guess that what it means.... Damned politicians with deep pockets of the public

[bigtex]

Jingles,
 WDFW Officers already write tickets (and thousands of them) for not having the WDFW Access permit. I find your claim about an officer "not writing" this ticket to be bogus. And if it is true then it wasn't a WDFW Officer. Maybe DNR or Parks

[Special T]

They have to tax us and fine the piss out of us.. A ticket is an enhanced tax for not doing as your told...  I always laugh when they "predict" increased rev from fees and tax hikes. These mental giants think that there are not alternatives to paying... Like buying an X box so they don't have to get f-ed with, or pay high gas prices for a little recreation... Or the thing that really burns gov... Run with expired tabs for something like a trailer... you use it a few times a year. ticket is what $120? move the trailer for a few years and don't get caught you just "saved" $$$ and why did you not pay? because it was $30 for the trailer instead of something more reasonable... 

[Little Dave]

Here is a question for everyone:  These are PUBLIC lands (DNR, WDFW) and the Public paid for them already so why should we have to pay to use something that is already ours?

Well we shouldn't have to, it should have been planned better so that the resources are sustainable.  There's still a chance for that.  Yes, it could be done, but probably more likely the sun will rise in the west tomorrow.  We just don't have the right people in the legislature to craft a sustainable operating budget.

The maintenance cost of assets is something that surprises more people than it should.  You'll hear stories from time to time about people that never change the oil in their car, don't clean their guns, live in a nice big but unfurnished house, stuff like that.  The same people run the government.  They rally the public to build a new school, once it's built there's no money to keep it running.  They widen freeways, then struggle for years to find money to maintain the wider roads.  They acquire land for wildlife habitat, but struggle to find money to condition the properties.

[bobcat]

Here is a question for everyone  these are PUBLIC lands ( DNR WDFW) and the Public paid for them already so why should we have to pay to use something that is already ours.

Actually what you'd be paying for is the roads, trails, campgrounds, and the maintenance of all of that. I know the DNR, as an example, has several campgrounds in Capitol Forest, and there is no fee for staying in them. Also all the roads and trails get a lot of use from people recreating in the forest and need to be maintained. I'm sure the WDFW is the same way. Not that I agree with the $30 per vehicle fee. But I'm just pointing out that it does take money to maintain all these public lands.

[Special T]

The problem isn't the fee its where the $$ is going!  People are not willing to pay the $30 to go to a state park but hunters under duress will pay and the money will fund the state parks which has much less to do with hunting...

[Jingles]

Jingles,
 WDFW Officers already write tickets (and thousands of them) for not having the WDFW Access permit. I find your claim about an officer "not writing" this ticket to be bogus. And if it is true then it wasn't a WDFW Officer. Maybe DNR or Parks

Well big tex
I hate to say that you don't know what you're talking about but the WDFW enforcement officer I was talking to  Stated that he would have a tough time writing a ticket for the $30.00 access fee.  and I do know the difference between DNR. State park wanna be cops and WDFW enforcement.  Now maybe if I lived over on the west side of this F***ed up state I might not know the difference  But here on the east side in the small area I live in we not only know the difference but interact with them on a routine basis.  Also The WDFW enforcement officer we have in this area is a member of the community and everyone knows him and he knows most everyone here.  Who the crooks are and who needs to someimes have something overlooked

[KopperBuck]

Jingles,
 WDFW Officers already write tickets (and thousands of them) for not having the WDFW Access permit. I find your claim about an officer "not writing" this ticket to be bogus. And if it is true then it wasn't a WDFW Officer. Maybe DNR or Parks

Well big tex
I hate to say that you don't know what you're talking about but the WDFW enforcement officer I was talking to  Stated that he would have a tough time writing a ticket for the $30.00 access fee.  and I do know the difference between DNR. State park wanna be cops and WDFW enforcement.  Now maybe if I lived over on the west side of this F***ed up state I might not know the difference  But here on the east side in the small area I live in we not only know the difference but interact with them on a routine basis.  Also The WDFW enforcement officer we have in this area is a member of the community and everyone knows him and he knows most everyone here.  Who the crooks are and who needs to someimes have something overlooked

Won't challenge what sort of officer we're talking about here. If he is a WDFW guy, he did say what you stated, I would tell him to nut up and write the f'n ticket. Why? Only $30 access fee?... I don't give a sh*t. If I'm paying, everyone else is paying. Otherwise what the hell is the point of having an access fee? It flames me to see people using rec lands that we're pumping dollars in and they can't buy a parking pass. Especially those tools at the boat launches (that's another issue )

I have a problem with the current revenue sharing model. I still don't have an issue with the fee - sure, I get it, they're public lands, but as stated before there are maintenance costs associated. If they don't change it, I sure hope your WDFW acquaintenace changes his tune, because until they reach $71million/biennium they're getting the short end of the stick.

[bigtex]

Well thousands of tickets are currently written by WDFW for not having the WDFW access permit which is either free (for WDFW license holders) or $10 for others, so I don't see how increasing the fee to $30 would change officer behavior. And if you know my profession you might believe me. 

[WCTaxidermy]

I was late in seeing this post and now have a migraine headache reading all 11 pages.  I buy a hunting and fishing license every year.  I pay all the other fees to play in the forest which I do a lot.  I am not supportive of this extra tax/fee because the States can't manage it's budget.

I did not see this question anywhere in all the posts.  How would out of staters be effected, who travel through the state and decide to pull up a forest service road and camp for the night, or out of staters coming up huckleberry picking on forest service land, etc?  I'm all for paying my fair share, but adding another tax because the budget can't be controlled is not right IMHO.  John

[bigtex]

I did not see this question anywhere in all the posts.  How would out of staters be effected, who travel through the state and decide to pull up a forest service road and camp for the night, or out of staters coming up huckleberry picking on forest service land, etc?  I'm all for paying my fair share, but adding another tax because the budget can't be controlled is not right IMHO.  John

The two examples you noted are not WDFW issues but federal Forest Service issues. This fee is only for DNR lands, WDFW lands and State Parks, not USFS/BLM/USFWS/USACE. But either way, law enforcement does not care if you are from Seattle or New York city if you don't follow the regulations, especially since all these areas are signed then you get a ticket.