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Author Topic: Why Steel Shot Sucks  (Read 19228 times)

Offline singleshot12

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 04:47:20 PM »
Not sure I've never seen it before and sure it's pricey too.. Back in the day I used load lead buffered 2's and 4's 2-3/4 in. for about $2 a box. Crunched greenheads @ 50-70 yrds every time. Really miss those days. Took me a few years to even figure out steel.Shoot them at half the yardage,pay ten times the price and still have as much cripples as retrieved. Yea steel sucks and wounds a ton of birds.
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Offline dawei

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 06:58:50 PM »
There is a new steel shot out on the market I'm looking forward to trying it's called (Federal Prairie Storm FS Steel) which has regular round pellets with ridged FliteStopper pellets inside a unique rear-braking wad. Suppose to have better patterns with the ridged pellets creating a larger wound channel. We'll see.
Federal® loads three different types of shells with Flitestopper® pellets in combination with the Flitecontrol® wad..............
• First came Premium® Black Cloud® with Flitestopper steel. The ratio is 40% Flitestopper steel and 60% Premium® brand steel. This loading was developed in 2007.
• Next came Prairie Strom® Lead (Pb). This ammunition was developed in 2009. It contains a mixture of 30% Flitestopper nickel-plated lead and 70% copper-plated Premium® lead.
• The latest iteration is Premium® Prairie Storm® Flitestopper® steel. This loading is a 50% each load of Premium® and Flitestopper steel and is a new loading for 2011. IT IS ONLY AVAILABLE IN #3, 4 steel. This loading is designed for upland hunting, NOT waterfowl hunting.
EACH OF THESE THREE LOADS PATTERN AND PERFORM DIFFERENTLY!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 07:04:46 PM by dawei »
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Offline Dustin07

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 12:41:17 PM »
using the more expensive load allows me to compensate for being a crappy/late/behind the bird shooter ;)

steel shot will still knock them down if you hit them in the head within range.

the more expensive shots help compensate, and may be more justifiable, in my opinion, for geese and seaducks.
Hevi•Shot® is great stuff, I use it every year for turkey hunting (not a lot of rounds fired [1-3] per season). It is just too flat out expensive to be shooting every time I waterfowl hunt however. I use it for an occasional goose that does a flyby of my dekes. I may shoot 1 10rd box for geese the whole season if that. YMMVH.

I bought mine originally for hunting snows and sea ducks. Scoters seem to wear kevlar vests so I figured it would help... but because I of work I ended up out of state as much as I was in state so I didn't hunt as much as I anted this year and used my hevi on puddlers  8) it knocked em down ;)

Offline sakoshooter

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2011, 11:32:42 PM »
i'd have to agree with Burleydogs's first post.
I shoot steel 3's early switching to 2's and BB's late season with no complaints. I shoot Hevi-shot or Kent Matrix for geese. If the geese are decoying well and we're in layout blinds, I'll shoot steel BB's.
Last year I shot a few boxes of Hevi-Metal. I'll be shooting it again this year.
I'd have to say that if you're not satisfied with steel shot loads, there are more alternatives than you can shake a stick at. And many of them are better than lead.
What sucked about steel shot early on was not the shot but the wad mostly and the fact that it was loaded to lead shot velocities. The steel shot loads on today's market work just fine witin the ethical range of a shotgun.
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Offline singleshot12

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2011, 06:15:43 AM »
And many of them are better than lead.

I would have a hard time agreeing that any other metal could be better or more lethal than lead. Even the 3 bucks a bang stuff hasn't come close to the 20 cent buffered lead loads I used to load..
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Offline CP

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2011, 07:05:52 AM »
And many of them are better than lead.

I would have a hard time agreeing that any other metal could be better or more lethal than lead. Even the 3 bucks a bang stuff hasn't come close to the 20 cent buffered lead loads I used to load..

 :yeah:

I should start a new thread on why steel alternatives suck but it can really be boiled down cost.  For an insane price you can get something that is almost as good as lead, but since the metal is so expensive the payloads are smaller or they mix in some steel or mystery metal and still charge you big $$$$.

Offline CP

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2011, 07:06:38 AM »
witin the ethical range of a shotgun.

what exactly is the ethical range of shotgun?

Offline BurleyDog

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2011, 07:42:40 AM »
witin the ethical range of a shotgun.

what exactly is the ethical range of shotgun?
[/quote]

I wish more people would actually ponder this question. First time I took my neice and my wife out duck hunting the thing they kept saying way "I can't believe how close they have to come before you can shoot at them"

Offline Dustin07

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2011, 09:13:20 AM »
I like 15 yards. I know some guys on this forum are dead-eyes at 40+ tho.

Offline Coho

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2011, 09:38:28 AM »
High velocity steel #4's = dead ducks < 40 yards..
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 11:26:39 AM by Coho »

Offline h2ofowlr

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2011, 10:04:41 AM »
witin the ethical range of a shotgun.

what exactly is the ethical range of shotgun?

I think the question should be directed towards the shooter not the gun.  With the right loads and a skilled marksman shooting birds out to 70 yards on the pass may be accomplished routinely.  Some unpracticed shooter may have an ethical range of 15 yards.
Cut em!
It's not the shells!  It's the shooter!

Offline sakoshooter

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2011, 12:19:39 PM »
This is probably going to get some hair rais'n but here goes.
Since I've been active at a numerous shotgun clubs for 30+ years, shooting trap, skeet, sporting clays and most of the shotgun games that have come down the pike, I'll air my opinion on "range".
Clay targets can easily be broken with one(1) pellet. Live birds take considerably more. A DU study a few years back concluded that the average mallard needed 4 pellets in vital areas for a clean kill.
Most skeet targets are broken @ 21 yds. Trap @ 31 yds.
Continental trap allows two shots if you miss on the first. I'd venture a guess that about 50% of those second shots connect.
Some of the other games we play offer shots out to about 70 yds. IE: 27 yd Anne Oakley IE: First shooter calls target, misses, second shooter misses, third shooter misses, fourth shooter 'chips' target - visible chip. First three shooters(missed)are out of the competition. Ususally dbl elimination. Most of the time in this game and the other games similar, if the first shooter misses, so do any others that attempt. Many do not even attempt because they know their chances are almost nill. The first shooter in this game has about a 40 - 45yd target. Everyone else has a much farther shot even though they are already ready to shoot(guns mounted).
Trap load: 1 1/8oz lead #7.5 - 390 pellets.
Duck load: 1 1/8oz steel #2 - 140 pellets.
First, in hunting, a bird needs to be hit. Second, it needs to be hit hard enough and with enough pellets to kill it cleanly. Not crippled so you see it go down on the neighbors property with no chance of retrieval or worse, dies that night from a crippling wound.
As stated earlier, ethical is determined by the shooter. 70yd shooting at ducks/geese is rediculous even with tungsten loads. Patterns are so sparse past 50yds and pellet energy is reduced below what could be considered lethal for enough penetration through thick feathers, skin and meat that these shots are basically unethical for a first shot at a healthy bird. Now a follow up shot on an already hit bird at these distances is another story.
There were a couple threads last fall talking about a similar topic. Bottom line, pattern your load, shoot your gun untill you're comfortable and confident with it and above all, know you and your gun's limiations. Seriously folks, is crippling birds our objective as hunters? Heck no. Would you gut shoot your elk because it was your only shot? Of course not. Unethical. We have to know when not to shoot. Sometimes you just let em go simply because they didn't come in close enough.
I do not shoot past 50yds as the norm. 40yds and under is what I'm looking for. They will come into this range if you do you part.
I make about 25 trips to various duck/goose spots every year. Mostly to Nisqually. I unfortunately see literally hundreds of birds crippled every season, mostly by hunters taking unethical shots at passing birds that are way to high. Many of these birds go down inside the refuge, probably die and do not benefit anyone. I'd also venture to say that they were not counted in that hunters daily bag limit either.
To address the 'alternative' shot options: Hevi-shot has a density of 12, lead shot - 11 and steel shot - 7.8. Some of the other tungsten shot products have a density close to lead, right around 11. Lead deforms when it hits bone, slowing penetration. This has been proven over and over. Tungsten does not. It penetrates further than lead. Many of the ducks I've shot with Hevi-shot or the like actually have exit holes. Also, lead cannot even come close to the velocities of today's steel or tungsten loads simply because it deforms in the chamber thus creating terrible patterns.
Actually steel shot can penetrate further than lead at resonable ranges with a large enough shot size because it doesn't deform.
Check out this link:
http://shotshell.drundel.com/pelletcount.htm
Lead is gone. Has been for a long time for waterfowlers. It's on it way out for upland hunters in many areas and many of us will see it's dissapearance for big game huning in our life times. Arguing about it is a mute subject.
Today's steel shot or tungsten loads have been refined over the years as have the wads they're loaded in and the chokes they're shot through to the point of being very effective within their intended range. This range is ultimately determined by you when in the field.
We do not have referees out in the field. It is ultimately our responsibility as hunters to know what is ethical and what is within the limits or ourselves and our equipment.
There are a lot of ducks but there are not enough for any of use to cripple and waste them.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 12:28:02 PM by sakoshooter »
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Offline CP

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2011, 12:34:24 PM »
My hair is still down.  I agree with most of what you wrote there.


Offline TheSkyBuster

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2011, 01:08:14 PM »

what exactly is the ethical range of shotgun?


150 yards    :chuckle:

Offline BurleyDog

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Re: Why Steel Shot Sucks
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2011, 01:14:37 PM »
great post sakoshooter!

I usually don't shoot at birds past 15 yards. I like for them to never knew what hit them... one second flying down to meet your buddies (decoys) next instant dead and falling to the water for an easy retrieve for my aging dog.

I can't wait for the season!!!!

 


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