I sure wish we could use expandible broadheads on big game! (Poll added)

[h2ofowlr]

Again why not allow expandables.  I don't think the topic has been pushed to the table again for a vote.  Probably not enough support from the guys that archery hunt to get it to the table again.  It's not the broadheads that are creating a shortened season.  All your harvest reports go into a data base and it is broke down into ratios.  They allow or a lot a total amount or % of animals to be harvested per year based apon the assesed amount per area.  Each season is allowed a certain number of days.  If the harvest goes up additional restrictions may be considered.
The item that will create shorter seasons for archery hunters is the technology of the bow.  15 years ago I thought I had a great bow at 225 fps.  I now have a new one that shoots about 330 fps.  I can pretty much use my 20 yard pin out to 40 yards.  At home I practice 60-100 yards.  If I can calm the heart beat and do lots of practice and get it dialed in and the arrows and fletching all tuned, the 30 yard and less shots I take on game are very simple.  The technology is there where individuals can stretch there shots these days.  10 years ago you wouldn’t mention it as individuals would blow a fuse at the thought of a 60-70 yard shot.  Now many individuals talk about those shots.  The challenge is those that don’t practice and animals that may jump the string.  % of potential bad shots increase substantially.  Mechanical or fixed discussion is small potatoes compared to what the guys are shooting these days.  We went from 65% let off to everyone now using 80% let off on there new bows.  Better arrow, better tips, better sights.
Then you get multi-season tags and a rifle hunter thinks he can go buy a used bow, and mail order muzzle loader and he’s the real deal.  Things are changing.  I talked to 5 different individuals last year that had shot and lost animals in the Winston unit alone with fixed broadheads.  There is a lot more factors to examine than the broadheads.  The best thing they could do is allow luminox.  Then people could actually see where there shot hits an animal as it is tough seeing the arrow fly with these fast bows.  Then people would know how long to wait depending on where there shot hit, so they didn’t push the animals and loose them.

[ribka]

I see all of my shots fine and I use flourescent fletching. Don't see how guys taking unethical shots and being able to see their shot hit the elk in the ass or stomach using lumenocks do any good. Guys taking these shots are typically poor woodsmen too and do not know the first thing about the proper tracking of wounded animals.Meet these types every year in early and late archery bragging about how many animals they stuck at 70 plus yds and never recovered. Poke and hope hunters.

My opinion is the new technology will draw more of these type of hunters to the primitive sport of archery and encourage even more long range shots Always find a lot of dead elk during the archery season shot in the hind quarters or stomach. 

[Machias]

 

[BOWHUNTER45]

I see all of my shots fine and I use flourescent fletching. Don't see how guys taking unethical shots and being able to see their shot hit the elk in the ass or stomach using lumenocks do any good. Guys taking these shots are typically poor woodsmen too and do not know the first thing about the proper tracking of wounded animals.Meet these types every year in early and late archery bragging about how many animals they stuck at 70 plus yds and never recovered. Poke and hope hunters.

My opinion is the new technology will draw more of these type of hunters to the primitive sport of archery and encourage even more long range shots Always find a lot of dead elk during the archery season shot in the hind quarters or stomach.

ya I agree too !!! I know many target shooters who can hit paper but cant hit there a$$ when it comes to deer or elk ..knock on wood in 30 + plus years of bow hunting I only lost one deer and it was because I called two bucks in and they started fighting I got alittle excited and shot to quick thinking they would take off when they finished and hit one high and just below the spine ..never got him and not sure it even killed him !

[Lowedog]

I see all of my shots fine and I use flourescent fletching. Don't see how guys taking unethical shots and being able to see their shot hit the elk in the ass or stomach using lumenocks do any good. Guys taking these shots are typically poor woodsmen too and do not know the first thing about the proper tracking of wounded animals.Meet these types every year in early and late archery bragging about how many animals they stuck at 70 plus yds and never recovered. Poke and hope hunters.

My opinion is the new technology will draw more of these type of hunters to the primitive sport of archery and encourage even more long range shots Always find a lot of dead elk during the archery season shot in the hind quarters or stomach. 

No where in the regs does it say archery seasons are primitive.  That is a tired argument.  I have been hunting archery since 1991 and the only thing that has changed is an increased amount of people hunting the late mule deer hunts.  The reason most people I have talked to switched to archery is because of a perceived better opportunity to take a nice buck during the rut because of the timing of the season.  That and the multi season tags.  It has little to do with technology.  20 years ago there were a ton of archery hunters lobbing arrows at distances way beyond their abilities also. We actually found more dead unrecovered animals back in the 90's than these days.  It is not a new problem with archery hunting.  There always has been and always will be those that take ridiculous shots at animals and it isn't exclusive to compound users. 

In my opinion WDFW needs to make the rut seasons for archery permit only.  No more general season rut hunts will send a lot of people back to rifle hunting.   

[pianoman9701]

This thread is getting dumber with each post.  Wish I would have never opened it.     

This forum should always be about friendly debate and the exchange of ideas. We're never all going to agree on everything or there'd be nothing to chat about. We should remember not to get so personal. We're talking about frikkin' broadheads here. How important is this in the broad scheme of things?

[MDGrand]

Thanks for the reminder Pianoman.. I often leave discussions like these as soon as they become a name calling thread.

Anyway..

ribka and others who believe that new technology will bring more low quality hunters to your favorite hunting method...

I will offer that the real culprit here is the over-counter-tag... NOT the technology. I know plenty of guys who only hunt one weekend a year and do not take it seriously. Now there is nothing wrong with that... however, if the tags were more selective than perhaps we would get a higher quality of hunter out in the field.

Also.. we can't get selfish here when it comes to other people wanting to try different methods. Hunting is highly scrutinized and I for one have encountered snobs in all methods that think there is a nobility to the way they do it (i.e. recurve).. they go so far as to challenge people using technology and that only gives people new to hunting a bad taste in their mouth.

 

[Button Nubbs]

Kind of off topic sort of but I agree with the above. I personally would have no problem hunting everyother year or 2/3 yeÀrs.

[MDGrand]

I will agree I was a bit off topic... but just to add more clarity.. I too would be willing to give up having a tag for all species every year if it meant if I drew elk, I could get a whole season and not just a few weeks.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I was wondering when someone was going to say something like this..

No where in the regs does it say archery seasons are primitive.  That is a tired argument.  I have been hunting archery since 1991 and the only thing that has changed is an increased amount of people hunting the late mule deer hunts.  The reason most people I have talked to switched to archery is because of a perceived better opportunity to take a nice buck during the rut because of the timing of the season.  That and the multi season tags.  It has little to do with technology.  20 years ago there were a ton of archery hunters lobbing arrows at distances way beyond their abilities also. We actually found more dead unrecovered animals back in the 90's than these days.  It is not a new problem with archery hunting.  There always has been and always will be those that take ridiculous shots at animals and it isn't exclusive to compound users. 

It may not say it in the regs, but you have to realize that once upon a time there was a "Hunting Season" and you bought your tag and went hunting, nobody (except for a VERY few) even gave a thought to using anything other than whatever rifle they had.
I am not sure about the history of Muzzle-loaders or "Black Powder", but once upon a time, you used what you wanted, and unless specifically prohibited, it was legal.
Then some guys that were using ("alternative weapons"), as in ("primitive") wanted to be recognized, and in the case of Archery even legalised.
Thanks to the efforts of a few great men (I wont get into their names, but you SHOULD know a couple) Bows were accepted as viable hunting weapons for big game, and not just toys for Boy Scouts.
These men had to prove that the weapons they chose to use were powerful enough to ethically harvest big game animals, and fight to be accepted, just to hunt during the general season.
After proving that bows were capable, they then fought to establish special areas and seasons to use these weapons without direct competition with more modern weapons.
There were no compounds, or ("other technological advancements") There were only Longbows and Recurves,(The first Archery season was in 1934, before even recurves were invented)  in the case of Black Powder, or Muzzle-loaders, there were no in-lines, 209 primers, etc. the simple act of choosing to use the weapon, and hunt with it in itself proclaimed "primitive", to be more specific, "not modern" and until (I think early '70's) there were no special seasons, if you used a ML, you hunted during the "gun" season.
To use the excuse that "No where in the regs does it say archery seasons are primitive" is not understanding the simple basis for THE WHOLE REASON THERE ARE SEPARATE SEASONS ! and not comprehending that to use anything other than a "modern Firearm" is in of itself restricting yourself (the hunter) to a primitive weapon, and in the continuing efforts to "modernize" the available choices of what is acceptable (read legal) will eventually negate all the reasons there are separate seasons.
If the trend continues, eventually it will go back to a single hunting season, where you use whatever weapon you choose, at least that will put an end to "resource allocation" and (maybe) put an end to this petty rivalry between different weapon users, but will probably institute the "permit only hunting" some others have suggested. 

[Snapshot]

Permit-only hunting is not "Selective"; it is luck-of-the-draw and, in my opinion, "restrictive". Restrictions on who could hunt led to the demise of hunting in most of Europe. And I would hate not being able to satisfy the burning in my belly to have the opportunity to dance with a bull elk each year; it would drive me to another state were it not an option here.
 
Stik, everything you wrote in the previous post I agree with, except 1934 was pre-fiberglass recurves. Recurved tips on wood and simple composite bows dates back many, many years eariler.
 
I don't understand the "it doesn't say primitive" card that gets pulled out time and time again in equipment debates. So what? Our state just doesn't happen to that word in the regulations; but others do. The fact is that it is an up-close and personal way to hunt with a weapon that doesn't reach out and touch 'em like a bullet. Call it limited-range, call it what it whatever you like. It was intended to be an endeavour that would allow a hunter to spend more time in the field because it is difficult to get up-close to wild prey animals. "Maximum time in the field with minimum impact on game populations" is an easy sell in a state with too many people for the number of animals available.
 
If a person wants to enjoy the time in the outdoors that long seasons provide then keeping the gear simple is the way to ensure those opportunities endure. If stacking animals is more important than one day being able to take your grandkid bowhunting, then shoot for the moon and see later how the cards fall.

[MDGrand]

Snapshot.. I hear what you are saying and trust me, I get it. But lets say for instance a draw was instituted and I am talking about one similar to MT.. they have a draw but there is a genereous amount of tags given out.. Odds are very high that you get one each and every year.. and it can very by GMU.. so 4 out of 5 years you get drawn and you get a SEASON to hunt.. wouldn't that be more advantageous than the few weeks you get now?

Also.. once the tags are gone.. it keeps the novice hunter from running into fred meyer the night before opening day and simply buying a tag and case a beer to go join you in your honey hole.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Also.. we can't get selfish here when it comes to other people wanting to try different methods. Hunting is highly scrutinized and I for one have encountered snobs in all methods that think there is a nobility to the way they do it (i.e. recurve).. they go so far as to challenge people using technology and that only gives people new to hunting a bad taste in their mouth.

I have been called an "elitist" and accept it, so I wanted to be clear, I see nothing wrong with using ANY weapon, or equipment that you personally choose to use, I find no fault with anybody who hunts according to their own personal agenda, I have hunted with all weapons myself, Started with a rifle, then used a Muzzle-loader, then a handgun, then a compound, now a recurve, I have been Archery hunting since 1986, and quit using a compound in 2002.
If you can efficiently and cleanly kill your animal, I don't care if it is with a rifle at 1000 yards, or a spear (if it were legal), it is just the argument about allowed technology in "restricted" seasons. If you want to hunt with the latest, greatest, fastest, flattest shooting, newest piece of equipment out there, then by all means I support you, but first I want you to understand the whole concept of why there are different seasons for different weapons,
I am not a "snob", I respect all hunters, I feel more of a camaraderie with other that chose to use "Traditional" weapons, but that is only because I identify myself with them., in a similar, but lesser degree with compound users, as it is still archery.
I respect and enjoy talking hunting with any hunters, including trappers and hound hunters, even though I am not one of them, we still share the love of the hunt.
It is just when you want to change an established regulation, THAT WAS PUT INTO EFFECT BY THOSE WHO DID THE WORK TO PROVIDE THE OPPORTUNNITY, AND SUPPORTED BY THE MAJORITY OF PARTICIPANTS IN THE SPORT, NOT THE WDFW, just because you want to be able to use something that is not supported by the majority of those ACTUALLY INVOLVED in the season setting, or regulatory process, I will not support you.
If (and when) expandables become legal (I do believe it is only a matter of time) I will accept them, but will not use them, and I will accept the users.
I do like to check out other peoples equipment, and think some of those set-ups are really impressive, I enjoy and appreciate the impressive capabilities of the new generation of hunting weapons, but prefer the look and feel of a nice piece of wood, whether it be the stock of a rifle (modern, or Muzzle-loader) or the riser on a bow. and a more fulfilling experience by simplifying my weapon of choice, but that is just me.
You are welcome to your own beleifs, and I wish you nothing but good will.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Stik, everything you wrote in the previous post I agree with, except 1934 was pre-fiberglass recurves. Recurved tips on wood and simple composite bows dates back many, many years eariler.

1934-Year of the first Bow hunting season in the United States, held in the state of Wisconsin.
I added the comment about recurves, I guess I should have stated "working recurve bows"
 1953-Bear Archery develops and sells the first working recurve bows.

[MDGrand]

STIKNSTRINGBOW
.. I totally respect your opinion.  Totally get where you are comming from.. I think there is a middle ground between the guys who really enjoy what you guys do and guys like me who like the new technology.