Did WDFW really plant wolves in Teanaway?

[Curly]

Just curious to see the amount of conspiracy theory folks out there.

[gasman]

I picked "NO", buy only because there was no third option (boobies and beer).

Personllay, I don't care. They are there, and it is likely that they could have migrated.

Am I happy they are there? No, not at all 

[Machias]

Well two points, if the DNA results say they are the Large version from Idaho, Montana and Wyoming then I say there's a damn good chance of it.  If however they are the smaller version that's come down from BC, what's to say they are not the wolves that were supposedly poached near Twisp?  They keep saying that pack went from 12 to 15 animals to 2, what's to say they did not just up and move?

[CedarPants]

Well two points, if the DNA results say they are the Large version from Idaho, Montana and Wyoming then I say there's a damn good chance of it.  If however they are the smaller version that's come down from BC, what's to say they are not the wolves that were supposedly poached near Twisp?  They keep saying that pack went from 12 to 15 animals to 2, what's to say they did not just up and move?

Exactly

[Curly]

It's been almost 20 years now since I saw wolves near Wenatchee Lake.  I always assumed those wolves traveled from Canada to get there.  It's not all that far from Wenatchee Lake to the Teanaway, so why would it be so hard to believe that wolves from Canada could end up in Teanaway??? 

Now, with that said, I also think it is possible that some wolf lover types maybe did drop off some wolves to help try to get them established.

Maybe I am naive, but I just don't see WDFW doing any sort of sanctioned wolf planting anywhere in the state.  Granted they have been infiltrated with a bunch of predator loving people, but I just have a hard time believing they would risk planting wolves; it seems like it would be very hard for a public agency like that to keep plantings secret.

[Machias]

It's been almost 20 years now since I saw wolves near Wenatchee Lake.  I always assumed those wolves traveled from Canada to get there.  It's not all that far from Wenatchee Lake to the Teanaway, so why would it be so hard to believe that wolves from Canada could end up in Teanaway??? 

Now, with that said, I also think it is possible that some wolf lover types maybe did drop off some wolves to help try to get them established.

Maybe I am naive, but I just don't see WDFW doing any sort of sanctioned wolf planting anywhere in the state.  Granted they have been infiltrated with a bunch of predator loving people, but I just have a hard time believing they would risk planting wolves; it seems like it would be very hard for a public agency like that to keep plantings secret.

It's not hard to believe that at all, in fact, if I was a betting man that's what I would conclude.....unless they are the wolves from ID, MT and WY....then I think they got a ride.
 
Think about this, the smaller BC wolf will not be able to withstand the colonization of the wolves from ID, MT and WY.  In other words an invasive species will wipe out a native species. 

[meathunter]

I voted yes only because 1 out of the 4 that i saw and posted a vague pic on here had a collar on it. I suppose it could have migrated from somewhere with a collar on it already, but i doubt it.

Meat

[Goomsba]

Well two points, if the DNA results say they are the Large version from Idaho, Montana and Wyoming then I say there's a damn good chance of it.  If however they are the smaller version that's come down from BC, what's to say they are not the wolves that were supposedly poached near Twisp?  They keep saying that pack went from 12 to 15 animals to 2, what's to say they did not just up and move?

Exactly

 

[grundy53]

I don't think WDFW planted them. But I wouldn't be surprised if conservation northwest did....

[Elkaholic daWg]

It's been almost 20 years now since I saw wolves near Wenatchee Lake.  I always assumed those wolves traveled from Canada to get there.  It's not all that far from Wenatchee Lake to the Teanaway, so why would it be so hard to believe that wolves from Canada could end up in Teanaway??? 

Now, with that said, I also think it is possible that some wolf lover types maybe did drop off some wolves to help try to get them established.

Maybe I am naive, but I just don't see WDFW doing any sort of sanctioned wolf planting anywhere in the state.  Granted they have been infiltrated with a bunch of predator loving people, but I just have a hard time believing they would risk planting wolves; it seems like it would be very hard for a public agency like that to keep plantings secret.

It's not hard to believe that at all, in fact, if I was a betting man that's what I would conclude.....unless they are the wolves from ID, MT and WY....then I think they got a ride.
 
Think about this, the smaller BC wolf will not be able to withstand the colonization of the wolves from ID, MT and WY.  In other words an invasive species will wipe out a native species.

 NO doubt on that!!!

[whacker1]

I don't think WDFW planted them. But I wouldn't be surprised if conservation northwest did....

  or some other group.

[Dave Workman]

You guys... sheesh.

The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.

If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
 

[whacker1]

You guys... sheesh.

The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.

If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
 

What do you mean, we can't know as they havenever tried to enhance an animal population.

[Wenatcheejay]

You guys... sheesh.

The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.

If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
 

 

 I don't know if WDFW is directly involved in releasing wolves. I am not sure what would happen if it were ever directly proven that they have or that they did. I'd venture nothing. USDFW has been caught and it proven that they plant evidence to farther thier ESA agendas. So no, I don't trust them, either of them. They work behind the scene with C NW & DFW, that is my opinion. I don't believe those groups are up to any good. They so desperately want a massive wolf presence in Washington. They do not care what the consequence of their actions will be. It will be interesting if the wolves go West instead of East. The question is will WDFW relocate them outside of King County. While those folkes demand all these programs I'd venture they would never allow them in their lives to be impacted. Maybe I am wrong there. We will see.

[danderson]

About 3 years ago a friend of mine told me about 2 cow moose that he spotted in the teanaway both with radio collars on, at that time there had not been any reported siting in our valley, so most folks figured that he saw cow elk instead,
the following  year moose reports with pictures confirmed that moose were moving into the valley, I know of at least 4 different moose now with one being born this year, point is we dont know what the WDFG is up to, who else has access to radio collars.

[whacker1]

About 3 years ago a friend of mine told me about 2 cow moose that he spotted in the teanaway both with radio collars on, at that time there had not been any reported siting in our valley, so most folks figured that he saw cow elk instead,
the following  year moose reports with pictures confirmed that moose were moving into the valley, I know of at least 4 different moose now with one being born this year, point is we dont know what the WDFG is up to, who else has access to radio collars.

tribes, W.S.U., and likely other institutions.

[bearpaw]

I voted no because I think wolves are expanding and multiplying just like they did in Idaho. Anyone can buy radio collars but collars are identifiable and ownership could be traced so I doubt anyone but WDFW is collaring wildlife.

However, when you consider the recent Fast & Furious scandal in BATF of selling guns to drug cartels, then think of the misapropriation of funds by USFWS that was exposed in congress by Jim Beers and was used to fund wolf introduction in Idaho/YNP, then look at the ties that Defenders of Wildlife and Conservation Northwest have with the WDFW. No wonder nobody trusts the state on wolf management.

Has anybody been keeping a head count at wolf haven. 

[Heartsblood]

I said "no" because I don't think the WDFW like to manage wildlife all that much. Why would they add to a situation when they already have trouble doing the job in the first place? 

[Cougeyes]

Why would the state plant wolves when their wolf management plan isn't even complete.  Seems like a dumb idea to relase them knowing the plan isn't done and all the pressure that would come to get it finalized. 

[Alchase]

Here is a Seattle Times article, with pics of the wolves in Teanaway, note the dates on the pics!
 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/fieldnotes/2015546358_summer_research_counting_wolf_pups_and_hunting_grizzly_bear_hair.html
 
My question of how many more "not yet called packs" are they observing and tracking?

[jackmaster]

You guys... sheesh.

The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.

If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
 

 

 I don't know if WDFW is directly involved in releasing wolves. I am not sure what would happen if it were ever directly proven that they have or that they did. I'd venture nothing. USDFW has been caught and it proven that they plant evidence to farther thier ESA agendas. So no, I don't trust them, either of them. They work behind the scene with C NW & DFW, that is my opinion. I don't believe those groups are up to any good. They so desperately want a massive wolf presence in Washington. They do not care what the consequence of their actions will be. It will be interesting if the wolves go West instead of East. The question is will WDFW relocate them outside of King County. While those folkes demand all these programs I'd venture they would never allow them in their lives to be impacted. Maybe I am wrong there. We will see.

if they werent directly resposible, then they damn sure know who is....

[UBA]

Someone fitted them with collars so someone knows where they came from or trapped. I think someone dumped um off prefitted with radio collars and waited til now to confirm a pack. If they did migrate in look at all the great land they traveled thru to get there. Why did they choose that area? Well because that's where they opened the cage.

[colockumelk]

Someone fitted them with collars so someone knows where they came from or trapped. I think someone dumped um off prefitted with radio collars and waited til now to confirm a pack. If they did migrate in look at all the great land they traveled thru to get there. Why did they choose that area? Well because that's where they opened the cage.

 

[turbo]

I said no because it's a collaboration of leftists extremists groups that will eventually lobby and win the power to restrict our rights as public land users/owners in the name of protection.

I will kill any wolf I see!

[dreamunelk]

Guy's remember the antelope!  Look how long they tried to reintroduce.  The wdfw can not introduce a species with out jumping through endless bureaucracy.   Seriously if they started today I bet it would be 10 - 20 years before they could.  If they were planted or moved with out following the rules it would be a career end for all individuals involved.  Not sure but I would not be surprised if criminal charges would follow.  I bet even the rancher who's cow they snacked (if they did) on would have a hell of a law suit.

As for the special interest groups, well they seem to get away with everything!

[grundy53]

Its different when your the one that makes up and enforces the rules...

[WAcoyotehunter]

you guys have been saying that wolves were in the area for a long time...why would there be a conspiracy theory now? 

The WDFW responded to wolf sightings and got a collar in the pack.  Good for them.  We should be thrilled that they're doing something.

[Arrow]

   I travel a lot in northern ID and everybody I talk to say the wolf populations have really done a number on their elk herds. I know there are only a few in Teanaway but these animals reproduce at a fast rate and travel great distances so if left alone this could turn out to be a bigger issue for everyone not just in Teanaway. Im not saying they are not doing anything but I feel ever hunter needs to pay attention to this topic because it could have a big impact on future hunts all accross WA.
   The below pictures are from northern ID. Notice how they corner the elk in a spot where she is traped with nowhere to go and the one wolf on her back. These are very smart and big animals especially when they are in a pack.   

[bearpaw]

There is a lot of solid information coming out of Idaho, Montana, Alaska, and Canada about wolves. Idaho for example is managing for a sustainable population of wolves but they have learned from experience that wolves must be managed to fit into the modern environment and to prevent significant herd losses such as happened in the Lolo and is happening in the St Joe and other areas. It has been a transition for their game department, they started out by wanting more wolves than are suitable for local envoronments, but due to public demands and dieing elk herds IDFG is slowly evolving and beginning to work with, rather than against local people to salvage the remaining herds. Just in the last month wolf management has changed in Idaho, Washington is still running at the 1995 mentality in wolf management.

I have yet to see any indication that WDFW wants to work with local people. Their endangered species division appears to be controlled by Defenders of Wildlife and similar organizations. The wolf plan that has been presented is based on a lot of disneylike wolf propaganda based on the Isle Royal model of wolf biology. Guess what, Isle Royal wolves have eaten themselves into extinction, they are down to 2 female wolves and its questionable if wolves will die out comppletely.

WDFW should talk to the Idaho F&G about their on the ground experience with wolves to develop the WA wolf plan. Our Wildlife Commission should be talking with Idaho's commission. Those commissioners have seen first hand what happens with wolf mismanagement.

They made a big deal about the peer review of the washington wolf plan, nobody knows who any of those people even are, it should have been peer reviewed by biologists familiar with recent game management in Idaho, Montana, and Canada.

[jackelope]

I have yet to see any indication that WDFW wants to work with local people. Their endangered species division appears to be controlled by Defenders of Wildlife and similar organizations. The wolf plan that has been presented is based on a lot of disneylike wolf propaganda based on the Isle Royal model of wolf biology. Guess what, Isle Royal wolves have eaten themselves into extinction, they are down to 2 wolves and its questionable if wolves will die out comppletely.

Do you have a source for this info?

[Cougeyes]

There are 2 breeding females left and 16 total wolves.  You can google it, everything on google is true so this must be too.

[bearpaw]

I meant to say 2 females, I went back and corrected. The problem with basing wolf management off Isle Royale is that there are no other predators, and the whole environment is not representative of a typical environment with multiple predators and many other impacts not found on Isle Royale.

http://www.northlandoutdoors.com/event/article/id/195189/publisher_ID/36/

Isle Royale pack down to 2 female wolves
 Moose numbers are stable but still half of the long-term average.
By: John Myers, Duluth News Tribune

 Several members of an Isle Royale wolf pack in this 2006 photo include the immigrant male wolf (the gray wolf in the middle right) along with his radio-collared daughter and mate wolf on the far right. The single male, which crossed to the island in 1997, has 22 offspring, 34 grand-offspring and is responsible for 56 percent of the gene pool among island wolves. (Photo courtesy Michigan Technological University)

One wolf is responsible for more than half of Isle Royale pack’s genes

The number of wolves roaming on Lake Superior’s Isle Royale has dwindled to just 16 with only two breeding females — a population level researchers say may not be sustainable much longer.

If the two remaining mating females were to die before raising female pups, the wolf population could be headed to extinction.

That’s the report released Tuesday from researchers at Michigan Technological University who have been studying moose on the island for 53 years, considered among the longest-running predator-prey studies in the world.

“The situation is kind of precarious,” said John Vucetich, the Michigan Tech professor who leads the research effort. “Every wolf has a 25 percent chance of dying in any given year, so we could lose those remaining females at any time.”

The 16 wolves counted this winter are down from 19 last year and 24 in 2009.

Once numbering as many as 50, with seven packs, the wolves are down to one pack.

Vucetich said the sex ratio should be close to 50-50 “and it’s been 40 years since we only had one pack. So we have three big issues that are working against them.”

“But it’s always been precarious,” said Rolf Peterson, former head of the Isle Royale research who is still involved in the island study, noting that the average population size is only 24.

The scientists acknowledge that National Park Service policy for the island favors a hands-off, natural management. But they say the Park Service should consider introducing wolves to help reduce inbreeding and bolster the population.

“There’s no formal policy that says they shouldn’t step in toward genetic rescue. But it’s an option we think they should at least take a look at,” Vucetich said. “Is it better for the wilderness or for the park if wolves go extinct? Or should something be done to keep wolves on the island? We are getting close to that decision.”

Isle Royale National Park officials could not be reached Tuesday afternoon for comment.

With no new wolves entering the population, inbreeding appears to be affecting the island wolves’ ability to reproduce and thrive. Researchers in 2009 confirmed that inbreeding is causing wolf deformities such as weak vertebrae. A spinal deformity has been found in 100 percent of wolf skeletons tested.

Wolves crossed ice and first came to the island about 1950. Wolf numbers have ranged from a low of 11 in 1993 to a high of 50 in 1980.

Moose numbers up

Scientists say the moose population appears to be slowly recovering after their numbers bottomed out a few years ago. They counted 515 moose during this winter’s count, up from 510 last year and the year before.

Moose calves on the island were larger this winter, and the fat content of bone marrow indicates that adult moose are better nourished now. The scientists have spotted three sets of twins in the past two years, the first twins since 2005. Winter ticks, which posed a severe threat to the Isle Royale moose in 2007, have declined significantly since then.

Researchers say moose appear to have hit bottom at 385 in 2007, though their numbers remain less than half their historic, long-term average. Scientists speculate that warmer weather has spurred parasites and other problems for the moose.

“We’ve been thinking they are about to pull out of their really low period. And the habitat has rebounded, with lower moose numbers, so there’s lots of food for them to eat,” Vucetich said. “If they don’t come back stronger fairly soon, then the impact (from climate change) may be bigger than we had previously thought.”

Moose came to the island around 1900, peaking at 2,445 in 1995.

Scientists were on the island from January to March, counting and studying wolves and moose.

Isle Royale, a U.S. National Park, sits about 15 miles from Grand Portage off Minnesota’s North Shore and is primarily a wilderness area. It’s a nearly controlled natural environment because there is only one predator — wolves — and only one major prey — moose — with no deer, bear or human hunters involved.

[Cougeyes]

And the fact that Isle Royale is basically a closed system with little to no immigration or emmigration, I would hope people dont base their management principles off of Isle Royale.

[Machias]

Climate change!   

[bearpaw]

Unfortunately Isle Royale is often cited in wolf research, here's an example:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuSSbiGgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=wolf+additive&source=bl&ots=cOa01qoZn8&sig=V-7PusYxbrnkag-BTPu7Pdk_6fA&hl=en&ei=wQAdTtSDJYi6sAOC5Zi7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=wolf%20additive&f=false

[jackelope]

Unfortunately Isle Royale is often cited in wolf research, here's an example:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuSSbiGgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=wolf+additive&source=bl&ots=cOa01qoZn8&sig=V-7PusYxbrnkag-BTPu7Pdk_6fA&hl=en&ei=wQAdTtSDJYi6sAOC5Zi7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=wolf%20additive&f=false

This is likely because it's such a closed environment and because it's "easy".

Isle Royale’s biogeography is well suited for the
project’s goals. That is, Isle Royale’s wolves and
moose are isolated, unable to leave. The population
fluctuations we observe are due primarily to births and
deaths, not the mere wanderings of wolves and moose
to or from the island. Nature is difficult to understand
because it usually includes interactions among so
many species. So it helps to observe where ecological
relationships are relatively simple. On Isle Royale,
wolves are the only predator of moose, and moose are
essentially the only food for wolves. To understand
nature it also helps to observe an ecosystem where
human impact is limited. On Isle Royale, people do not
hunt wolves or moose or cut the forest.

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/wolfhome/home_files/Annual%20Report%202011%20color.pdf

That article is neat to read. I assume the detail in that article is the #1 reason that people keep referring to that place...it's seemingly good info but in reality it's not.

[MtnMuley]

This topics title should be changed to " Did Conservation Northwest Plant Wolves in the Teanaway?".

[jackelope]

 

[CedarPants]

This topics title should be changed to " Did Conservation Northwest Plant Wolves in the Teanaway?".

Agreed

[jackelope]

The consequences of genetic deterioration in Isle Royale wolves

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/rescue

[briancorneal]

Naturally occuring predator-prey relationships should not be messed with.  100 years or so of study can't replace what has been happening since the dawn of time.  Introducing something new to an ecosystem that has never had it has proven to have unintended consequences.  Take Hawaii and the introduction of the mongoose to get rid of the rats.  The mongoose started eating the non-flying Nene goose and have since been endangered.  (I grew up in HI). We shouldn't mess with that stuff no matter how "educated" we are!

[Curly]

This topics title should be changed to " Did Conservation Northwest Plant Wolves in the Teanaway?".

Here you go.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,79574.new.html#new

[pjmcbride]

come on lets stay on topic here this is about teanaway not some place else?

[Lowedog]

you guys have been saying that wolves were in the area for a long time...why would there be a conspiracy theory now? 

The WDFW responded to wolf sightings and got a collar in the pack.  Good for them.  We should be thrilled that they're doing something.

 

There have been threads on here in past years where people talked about wolf sightings in the Teanaway.  I know a guy who claims to have seen one real close to there 2 or 3 years ago.  I remember my mom saying she saw a wolf on Blewett pass about 5 years ago.  I also know a guy who lives right on the Teanaway River who said he had wolves after his chickens in his yard 10 years ago. 

WDFW finally confirms a pack there and now it is a big conspiracy like they just showed up over night.   

[Wenatcheejay]

you guys have been saying that wolves were in the area for a long time...why would there be a conspiracy theory now? 

The WDFW responded to wolf sightings and got a collar in the pack.  Good for them.  We should be thrilled that they're doing something.

 

There have been threads on here in past years where people talked about wolf sightings in the Teanaway.  I know a guy who claims to have seen one real close to there 2 or 3 years ago.  I remember my mom saying she saw a wolf on Blewett pass about 5 years ago.  I also know a guy who lives right on the Teanaway River who said he had wolves after his chickens in his yard 10 years ago. 

WDFW finally confirms a pack there and now it is a big conspiracy like they just showed up over night.   

I think we all know there are wolves all over Washington. The frustration is how they confirm wolves. There could be 100,000 wolves in washington but until the proper authority says there have been 15 confirmed packs that have been confirmed to breed in the same place for three years it does not matter. It is the willful stupidity of our WDFW and all the wolf loving people that piss people off. There is no conspiracy, there is no paranoia. There are facts, they are just ignored.

[rtspring]

This is going to be a daily topic on here soon, if something is not done about it.....

[BOWHUNTER45]

Hell I would like to just see one once ..... get it ONCE !!!!

[pjmcbride]

my wife is from alaska and it saden's her to see the game department act if there is nothing wrong with it talking to someone that grew up around them in the outskerts of town .give them an 1inch she says youll have more than you think in a short time .as far as the wolf lovers go there trail bait .to a wolf .

[Miles]

Half of you probably had wolves walk right through your yard while you were busy becoming an expert on everything from mechanics to world economics on Hunt-wa.