Frontal Shots? (Archery)

[MIKEXRAY]

Perfect answer Opportunist, just what I was thinking.

[Todd_ID]

Never in a million years would I advocate this shot to a new hunter.  Even a veteran rifle elk hunter I would steer clear of trying it with a bow.  When one's got 10, 15 or 20 elk with a bow behind them and all of the experience that comes with getting those elk, then I am not going to be one to say that they should not take it just because I don't feel it's a good shot.  That being said, I will clarify some to say that there is basically no shot on an animal that is at all quartering toward you; my definition of frontal means directly in line with no quartering, and that is a different thing than quartering towards.

I agree that setup changes can be made to help from getting the head-on approach, but not all elk respond the same, so it still can happen.  By all means don't take the shot unless you are certain you'll make a killing shot: same as a broadside shot.  In the end, you are not the only one that has to live with the consequences; that elk, future calves from him or her, and other hunters' opportunities all must factor into your decision to shoot or not.  Filling a tag has little to do with it; whether it's possible or not is what this thread is about.

[bullchaser]

"A frontal shot is irresponsible because there is too much muscle and bones protecting the heart. I have a host of sad tales of wounded elk running off with arrows sticking out of their chests. A frontal shot is a poor choice, it's a stupid choice. Pass it up and go home with a clear conscience." -Mike Lapinski - 40 to 50 bulls to his credit. We could ask Dwight Shue or Larry D Jones we would get the same answer. -Probably another 100 bulls between them. I have a feeling those who argue that anything but a broadside shot on a bull is OK Have never been beside themselves with anguish and guilt because they took a shot they shouldn't have. I have and I wouldn't wish that feeling on my worst enemy's. I don't really care what some coyboy from California did on utube it was probably his fist Elk. The point is it doesn't allways work (double lung at 25 does) and I wish someone would have told me that before the day I tried it. 

[bowhuntin]

I agree not a shot that an archer should take, leave those kinds of shots for modern firearm season. Just posted that video because I remembered seeing it on youtube and some one was asking about a video of a shot.

[bullchaser]

I am not questioning you bowhuntin I just feel strongly about the subject.

[Elknut1]

  No doubt, frontal shots are not to be taken lightly, it's a tough shot to pull off even for the more experienced elk hunter! The front head-on of an elk is built like the front of a boat, it's got that V-shape to it, most guys are trying to catch the main arteries there not so much a heart shot.I personally will let a bull walk if that's all that is offered. I have wounded a bull many years ago with a frontal shot at 17yds, it was my fault entirely. I purposely placed the shot to the right of center & I could tell from the arrows angle in him it it slid to the right of his heart hugging the leg area more than anything. Never found that bull after 6 hours of searching & a decent but not great blood trail. He took us straight up hill for 3/4 of a mile, bad sign!!!! I went back the next day & still found nothing!

  No frontal shots for me!!!

  However, do not confuse a quartering to you shot to a frontal shot! This is highly effective & doable even for trad shooters out to 20yds. It's a decent sized kill zone larger than a cantaloupe.  I consider this a steep quartering shot head on, in other words if you can see the elks right side or left side of rear end & a slight quartering side of his chest you can slip an arrow between the brisket & front leg, yet under the scapula/shoulder blade, this means taking an elk from the ground with a mid height or a bit lower type shot. I've killed several bucks with this exact shot & 2 bulls, they don't go far. You have no more rib bone or muscle mass to penetrate than a broadside shot.
  This is a shot for us at 20 yds or under with our recurves & longbows. I took my bull last year with this exact shot at 13 yds, it took out his heart with a wensel woodsman broadhead.  You do have room for error, you don't have to hit a coffee cup sized target to pull it off.

  I will add photos of an elks anatomy & of a bull I took 3 years ago with this same shot out of a Hoyt bow shooting 220fps & a magnus stinger 4-blade broadhead. That bull went less than 100yds.  The key to taking any shot on elk is knowing their anatomy, leave the guessing at home, be 100% confident on any shot angle & your effective range.

  I agree excitement & experience along with nerves of steel come into play on very close encounters, but broadside shots can cause this same excitement, aim small miss small. Know your target well before hitting the elkwoods!! If it's nothing but broadside shots, so be it. If you have other angles you are confident in then know them well & what it takes to up the percentages for quick clean kills. We do owe it to the animal, they're not pin cushions!!

  I'm also including a photo of a bull we took with this quartering to you shot I spoke of.

  http://www.bowhunting.net/NAspecies/elk2.html   look at the broadside skeleton photo, you can tell that there's no more rib bone to get through on that than the quartering to you shot I spoke of.

  ElkNut1

 

[boneaddict]

How do you deal with the front shoulder....are you going on the inside of it, or do you mean you are slicing into the boiler roombehind it at a hard angle??

re-read it.......got it!(problem about doing this at work. 

I've got a calling question for you elknut, can I pm you?

[Elknut1]

  Doug, no problem! Feel free to do so!

  ElkNut/Paul

[Intruder]

Perfect answer Opportunist, just what I was thinking.

+1

[sdwwaverider]

I shot 1 last season with a frontal shot. 25 to 30 yards, slid it inside the right shoulder. He ran 158 ft (by my GPS) and piled up. Went right through his heart. Had a perfect star through it. I had hunted for 9 days and had passed up 4 due to range or angle. I had taken a bobcat the day before at 35 yards so my confidence was up. I will still pursue a better angle in the future but would be tempted to try it again depending on the circumstances.

[Intruder]

  However, do not confuse a quartering to you shot to a frontal shot! This is highly effective & doable even for trad shooters out to 20yds. It's a decent sized kill zone larger than a cantaloupe.  I consider this a steep quartering shot head on, in other words if you can see the elks right side or left side of rear end & a slight quartering side of his chest you can slip an arrow between the brisket & front leg, yet under the scapula/shoulder blade, this means taking an elk from the ground with a mid height or a bit lower type shot.

Interesting.... I think I understand and am able to visualize what you're describing.  If feasible could you post a photo of an elk in quartering position w/ the target zone marked.

[Elknut1]

 Intruder, I'll see what I can come up with? Not sure if I know how to post such a photo or not! (grin) I'll work on it! By the way we've taken 7 bulls in the last 5 years total with this quartering to you shot in our camp! Not a "frontal shot" We have not lost any to this angle. It's as deadly as a quartering away shot for comparison.

  ElkNut1

[Intruder]

Thanks!

It makes sense.  I guess what surprises me is the size of the area.  I've never given it much thought but just off the cuff my impression would have been that you only have an opening 3" across.  But you're sayin its more like 6-8" maybe?  That would change my perspective about that for sure.  Within 20 yards that's feasible.  Hell, the areas I hunt it's likely to only be 10-20 anyway. 

[DeKuma]

There is a topic on Archery Talk about this very thing with some decent photos, some form the link above and some showing real elk with the areas highlighted.

[Intruder]

On this site, right?  Do you know what the topic tittle is?