Free: Contests & Raffles.
This isn’t because the hunter in question has actually studied the subject, but because he heard stuff ’round the campfire or read it in magazines. Among other things, he’s been told that “shock” is a major factor in how expanding bullets work. When asked to explain shock the hunter in question often becomes irate, and responds with, “Everybody knows what shock is!” Maybe, maybe not. Let’s look up shock in an unabridged descendant of Noah Webster’s dictionary. It turns out there are a bunch of shocks, including sheaves of grain, the physiological effect of an electric current and being startled, as in “the rebuke came as a shock.” Obviously those don’t apply, since hunters don’t zap deer with 110 AC, slap them with a wheat-whip, or rebuke them into the freezer. The definitions that could apply are: 1.) A sudden and violent blow or impact; collision. 2.) Pathology: A collapse of circulatory function, caused by severe injury, blood loss, or disease, and characterized by pallor, sweating, weak pulse and very low blood pressure.Many hunters take the first definition. They think that a bullet hits so hard that a deer is shocked into unconsciousness, like a movie bad guy being lifted off his feet by a shotgun blast. Often kinetic energy is quoted, as in “the bullet hit with 2,000 ft.-lbs. of force.” Sometimes this is even turned into “a ton of energy,” conjuring images of a Hollywood car chase. This sounds good, but a 2,000-pound compact car going 60 m.p.h. (88 fps) develops around 240,000 ft.-lbs. of kinetic energy, almost 100 times as much energy as a 180-grain .30-’06 Sprg. bullet retains at 100 yards. The car’s energy will lift a deer off its feet, but the bullet won’t.In fact if a rifle bullet developed 240,000 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy the rifle would slam its shooter to the ground, since the average hunter is about the same size as a mature whitetail buck. This is because of an old Newtonian rule of physics: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This is what we feel when a .30-’06 Sprg. recoils, the “equal and opposite reaction” to the bullet leaving the muzzle.Actually our shoulder feels a little more than that, because part of a rifle’s recoil is the rocket effect of hot powder gas leaving the muzzle—which the deer doesn’t receive. Yet when firing a .30-’06 Sprg. we’re not slammed to the ground; instead our shoulder is pushed back an inch or two.To demonstrate this lack of knock-down power I once built a “deer” out of a 3-foot-long wooden box and some 2x4s. When the box was filled with moist earth the deer weighed 150 pounds. I shot into the broadside box from 100 yards away, starting with .223 Rem., then .257 Roberts, .30-’06 Sprg., .338 Win. Mag. and, finally, the .416 Rem. Mag. The bullets were all stopped by the fake deer. The .416 seemed to rock the box a little, but the others didn’t move it, even slightly.So why do bullets sometimes appear to “knock down” an animal? Most of the time this occurs because the animal was hit in the spine. It isn’t knocked down, but falls down because the spinal cord is severed. Sometimes, however, a bullet passes close enough to the spine to temporarily disrupt the nervous system, often by striking a rib or the “dorsal processes” on top of the vertebrae. If the bullet passes under the spine, through the lungs, the deer probably will go down and stay down, but if the bullet hits the top of the spine the deer may get up and run away.A related theory is that a bullet that stays inside a deer expends all its energy, thus somehow “shocking” the deer more severely. Well, not exactly. Bullets that stay inside usually do so because they expanded widely. This slows them down quickly, due to resistance—but the wider bullet also creates a bigger hole in the deer’s vital organs. The bigger hole, not kinetic energy shocking the deer, kills quickly.
A while back there was a post on here about 180 gr 30-06 factory loads. I remember Federal Premium Cartridges being recommended as a good choice for elk. So tonight I went down to buy a box to see how well they will group from my M77. Holy crap, there's three different bullets in that weight and cartridge type. Nosler, Accur-bond and Triple Shock. Which one? I have been using Core-loks for years and have had decent success with them. However, last fall my son and I each took our elk at close range in the big timber. And the bullets didn't pass through either rib cage. Stopped short on the far side. So I was thinking to ramp up the horsepower a bit. Staying with the '06. Any one of the above bullets better suited than the other?
I have actually knocked a deer clean off its feet at about 10yrds with core locks I believe. Yes knock down power is a relevant argument here, and is not related to the kick a rifle gives, Rather type of bullet and load used, and of course placement of shot, all determines how much of the bullets energy will be transferred. If the bullet does not leave the animal 100% of bullet energy (at site of impact) has been transferred, if bullet passes through not all energy has been used. Neither of these scenario's means a poor performance from the bullet or load. It is a carefull balance which is hard to obtain, I would say that if you have bullets getting caught in the hide on the opposite side of the entry wound it is ideal, leaving maximum amount of distance traveled within the body cavity and all the energy transferred.I use 180 H&F
Try this little experiment of mine....Have a buddy climb a 10 foot ladder, stand under it, and have him drop a penny on your head from the top...next, have him drop a silver dollar on your head. Feel the difference? Next try a bowling ball....is the energy different??? They aren't actually traveling at much different speeds....
Some interesting stuff from John Barsness:QuoteThis isn’t because the hunter in question has actually studied the subject, but because he heard stuff ’round the campfire or read it in magazines. Among other things, he’s been told that “shock” is a major factor in how expanding bullets work. When asked to explain shock the hunter in question often becomes irate, and responds with, “Everybody knows what shock is!” Maybe, maybe not. Let’s look up shock in an unabridged descendant of Noah Webster’s dictionary. It turns out there are a bunch of shocks, including sheaves of grain, the physiological effect of an electric current and being startled, as in “the rebuke came as a shock.” Obviously those don’t apply, since hunters don’t zap deer with 110 AC, slap them with a wheat-whip, or rebuke them into the freezer. The definitions that could apply are: 1.) A sudden and violent blow or impact; collision. 2.) Pathology: A collapse of circulatory function, caused by severe injury, blood loss, or disease, and characterized by pallor, sweating, weak pulse and very low blood pressure.Many hunters take the first definition. They think that a bullet hits so hard that a deer is shocked into unconsciousness, like a movie bad guy being lifted off his feet by a shotgun blast. Often kinetic energy is quoted, as in “the bullet hit with 2,000 ft.-lbs. of force.” Sometimes this is even turned into “a ton of energy,” conjuring images of a Hollywood car chase. This sounds good, but a 2,000-pound compact car going 60 m.p.h. (88 fps) develops around 240,000 ft.-lbs. of kinetic energy, almost 100 times as much energy as a 180-grain .30-’06 Sprg. bullet retains at 100 yards. The car’s energy will lift a deer off its feet, but the bullet won’t.In fact if a rifle bullet developed 240,000 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy the rifle would slam its shooter to the ground, since the average hunter is about the same size as a mature whitetail buck. This is because of an old Newtonian rule of physics: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This is what we feel when a .30-’06 Sprg. recoils, the “equal and opposite reaction” to the bullet leaving the muzzle.Actually our shoulder feels a little more than that, because part of a rifle’s recoil is the rocket effect of hot powder gas leaving the muzzle—which the deer doesn’t receive. Yet when firing a .30-’06 Sprg. we’re not slammed to the ground; instead our shoulder is pushed back an inch or two.To demonstrate this lack of knock-down power I once built a “deer” out of a 3-foot-long wooden box and some 2x4s. When the box was filled with moist earth the deer weighed 150 pounds. I shot into the broadside box from 100 yards away, starting with .223 Rem., then .257 Roberts, .30-’06 Sprg., .338 Win. Mag. and, finally, the .416 Rem. Mag. The bullets were all stopped by the fake deer. The .416 seemed to rock the box a little, but the others didn’t move it, even slightly.So why do bullets sometimes appear to “knock down” an animal? Most of the time this occurs because the animal was hit in the spine. It isn’t knocked down, but falls down because the spinal cord is severed. Sometimes, however, a bullet passes close enough to the spine to temporarily disrupt the nervous system, often by striking a rib or the “dorsal processes” on top of the vertebrae. If the bullet passes under the spine, through the lungs, the deer probably will go down and stay down, but if the bullet hits the top of the spine the deer may get up and run away.A related theory is that a bullet that stays inside a deer expends all its energy, thus somehow “shocking” the deer more severely. Well, not exactly. Bullets that stay inside usually do so because they expanded widely. This slows them down quickly, due to resistance—but the wider bullet also creates a bigger hole in the deer’s vital organs. The bigger hole, not kinetic energy shocking the deer, kills quickly.http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/how-expanding-bullets-work/
This business that the same amount of energy is absorbed by your shoulder that is carried with the bullet is flawed. For every action there is a reaction it is a simple law of physics. The guy that wrote that article and many of you on here seem to grasp that principal, but it is your application of the principal that is flawed. First you are dealing with an explosive force which is giving energy off in all directions, there is significant amount of energy traveling down the barrel with the bullet , as well as energy given off in muzzle rise, energy absorbed by the movement of the rifle and energy transferred from one componet to the next, as well as the absorption of energy into a recoil pad if you have one. But the biggest concept to grasp here is how energy is dissipated rapidly by many different function leaving your shoulder absorbing a substantially less.The reason for the energy that is given to the bullet itself not effecting the target as one would think (knock down power) is due to its deceleration rate, which comes from the bullet design expanding slow enough and small enough to slowly(relative term) release that energy. You must keep in mind that any type of effect a physics principle that we are talking about has on a bullet is lost exponentially due to other principals at work.The analogy of a car hitting a deer vs. a bullet is a poor one. A car does not penetrate a deer and lose its energy, the body of the deer has to transfer all of that energy instantly(baring a few smaller absorptions) that is why the deer is knocked over. If you hit a deer at a speed that would create 2900 lbs of force the deer would be knocked over as well. to keep the disagreement going. And Bowhunter that deer never moved an inch after it was knocked over. The knock over was due to the bullet hitting the shoulder blade and expanding rapidly, thus transfer more energy then usual.Once again this is my but these principals are easily proven.H&F
WAY OFF TOPIC.... But would like to know, Bowhunter45...are the ladies in your avater going to be present in their attire anywhere close???
