WDFW survey

[GoldTip]

Look I agree, I do not want to see the muzzle loader change to be nothing more than a long range single shot firearm that is loaded from the front.  But if you guys wanna keep screaming keep it traditional, then why the inlines at all?  Why the legalization of pelletized powder and saboted bullets?  The fact of the matter is hunting has progressed and many people switched to Muzzleloader seasons due to the decreased pressure and people in the woods.  Remember 30 years ago when they made the switch, there were probably fewer rifle hunters at that time than there are muzzle loader hunters now, and maybe thats why they made the switch, hell maybe thats why you guys made the switch.  And in 30 years there will probably be as many Muzzy hunters as there are currently rifle hunters.  The point is despite not wanting hunting to progress it does, also just that simple.  I didn't say anything about enclosed 209 primers and I am not advocating using a leupy 3x9.  Simply a form of sighting which does little to "magnify" the site picture and yet puts the sighting on the same plane, thats all.  Just my 

[scudmaster]

I filled it out, even thought I do not Muzzle loader hunt, I have a few elderly patients who do, and they have a hard time with open sights and a getting a good sight picture.  I think the Muzzy hunters should be allowed to use scopes, though nothing greater than 2 power, this would help those with deficient or aging eye sight.

Just finished the Survey. 

GoldTip have your patients looked in to getting a disabled hunter exemption to allow for optics on their ML?  I don't know how bad their vision is, but it is something to suggest.

[Curly]

GoldTip have your patients looked in to getting a disabled hunter exemption to allow for optics on their ML?  I don't know how bad their vision is, but it is something to suggest.

Yeah that........or like Bobcat suggested; they should try a peep sight.

I first started ML hunting for elk over 20 years ago because I wanted to get away from the crowds, but what I found was the crowds were bad w/ ML elk hunting too because of the small amount of units that were open.  It concentrated all the ML hunters into a very small area. 

I did it for a few years and then went back to rifle hunting.  I'm now back ML hunting because they have more units now.  I'd hate to see them change the ML rules which would cause more people to take it up.  That's why I want the rules to remain the same as they are but to just add even more units.

[MountainWalk]

i prefer they keep it trad. no 209 or scopes. peeps are great on powder guns.

[scudmaster]

I first started ML hunting for elk over 20 years ago because I wanted to get away from the crowds, but what I found was the crowds were bad w/ ML elk hunting too because of the small amount of units that were open.  It concentrated all the ML hunters into a very small area. 

I did it for a few years and then went back to rifle hunting.  I'm now back ML hunting because they have more units now.  I'd hate to see them change the ML rules which would cause more people to take it up.  That's why I want the rules to remain the same as they are but to just add even more units.
[/quote]

Interesting perspective on too many areas open and I guess the same applies in having the ML get too modern.  Makes me think differently about some issues.  Thanks for the thoughts.

[HntnFsh]

Start allowing scopes,209 primers etc.A lot of people will be giving up modern to hunt m/l.Think the crowds are bad now.If that happens itll be as bad as rifle season.

In fact if it did happen I may just go back to rifle for elk.

[Head-shot]

I did the survey, and I think WDFW said thanks by not drawing me for any tags.

[marc10000]

I would like to see the rules changed. I think that we as hunters deserve to be able to use the gear that all the manufacturers are offering. The same gear that is in use on the east coast and down south. All the major companies have moved past the legal technology that WA state hunters use. The only weapons we can use are the ones that are discontinued or don't sell elsewhere.

A muzzle loader is a muzzle loader whether it be 209, musket, or #11 cap. I've tried them all and there is really isn't that much of an advantage. To me it's about choice in gear. It's about this style of hunting being a hobby and being able to use good equipment.

The thing to remember is all these rifles are single shot. All these rifles shoot about the same arc of trajectory. It takes just as long to reload one of these guns whether it's a Hawken or a TC Encore. With our damp weather it's a severe penalty having to keep primer exposed to the elements. I think it's time for this state to reevaluate it's stupid regs. Not everybody wants to play Daniel Boone or Davey Crockett. I don't mean that in a bad way. I just think reading the responses here there are a lot of people that have selfish reasons for keeping things the way they currently are.

I don't have an opinion on scopes. I'm not arguing for scopes, just the right to buy a decent state of the art muzzle loader to hunt with.

Just to add a little more: Most everybody I talk to has some little trick to get around the regs anyway. People use nail polish on primers, balloons on barrels. saran wrap around nipples, you name it. You all know it's true. Nobody can carry a sidelock or an open inline in a hard rain and expect it to shoot for any length of time. I mean who are we kidding?

Now I would never do anything like that.

The sad part is I checked on using one of my ML 209 rifles in the modern season. I thought I would put a scope on it and use jacketed bullets seeing how I had put so much money into it and really enjoyed using it, but what I found out was if you use a ML in the modern season then you still have to abide by normal ML rules. Outrageous!!!!

[KillBilly]

Quote from Marc10000

"Just to add a little more: Most everybody I talk to has some little trick to get around the regs anyway. People use nail polish on primers, balloons on barrels. saran wrap around nipples, you name it. You all know it's true. Nobody can carry a sidelock or an open inline in a hard rain and expect it to shoot for any length of time. I mean who are we kidding?"


All the little tricks that Dan Boone, Jeramiah Johnson, and thousands had to use. They had to keep their powder and primers dry because they couldn't complain about no being able to use a 209. That's what muzzle loader hunting is all about in this state. You could go to the state that allows them and live and hunt there.

[marc10000]

Right, like Daniel Boone climbed out of his 35' fifth wheel trailer with satellite dish to scare up some grub. If you aren't leaving the cap exposed to the elements then you are illegal, plain and simple.

[Curly]

Marc, when its raining I just wear a poncho and keep my ML under the poncho................it stays dry until I have to take the rifle out from under my poncho if I need to shoot; then it is not exposed long enough to matter.

Anyway, I think it is a little different to use a ML with some little trick to keep the nipple covered vs. using an inline that is manufactured so that there is virtually no way for water to get in and make the powder wet so that it doesn't fire.  That is part of the challenge of ML hunting.

[marc10000]

I agree with that, completely.

In western WA though the season really falls during a rainy period every year. It could rain everyday for a week. It could rain the whole season. That's all I'm saying. The Jeremiah Johnsons never had to deal with the continual deluge that becomes western WA in December.

I own a Great Plains Rifle and a Deerstalker and love to take them out when the weathers good. But if it gets really socked in would be nice to go to something more suitable. I've lost too many good days of hunting to the weather.

It is a challenge and I appreciate what you are saying. I'm just one that hopes that the rules get changed. Most of the inlines that are legal in this state and have been legal now have been discontinued by the makers. They have been moved here by the big chain stores to get rid of them. Soon it may even be that they will no longer be any available.

The TC Black Diamond and Several Traditions models are no longer being made. There just isn't enough money in it for the handful of states that have the primitive type rules. Someone was saying 10,000 hunters in this state. Most of them already have guns.

It's not just the rain, it's the dampness and the condensation. I've tried hunting hard in the rain. Even with the poncho it's a losing battle the more days that go by and it continues to drizzle.

[CP]

It is difficult to find an inline that isn't a 209 rifle these days. 

[CP]

My main input on the survey is they need to open up more opportunities for ML hunters.  Over half of the eastside GMUs are closed to us and there are only a few special permits available.  I’d really like to hunt Entiat or Pasayten, why can’t I?

[Curly]

You guys are correct about not being able to find an inline that is currently in production that is legal in this state.  I really wouldn't mind if they made all inlines illegal even though I finally broke down and bought an Austin & Halleck last year when they were getting rid of the last of their rifles.  The inlines are a little more reliable for firing in our wet W Wa weather, even with the nipple exposed to the elements.  If inlines were to become illegal here, then I would just have to use my old 54 cal Renegade.