Recommended breeders for Brittanys in western WA?

[johng]

Hi all,

This is my third year hunting and I think I am at the point of wanting to start hunting with a good upland bird dog who will also hopefully get me into some rabbits and perhaps retrieve a duck or two in not so cold water.

I have done some googling around and have found a couple breeders but I was hoping for "first hand" knowledge.  Does anyone have a Brittany they got from a breeder in Washington state (preferably the wet side so I don't have to drive as far to see the dogs)?

Any insight you could provide would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

- Jg

[Happy Gilmore]

Send me a PM. I have a few contacts of folks who have been judging pointer FT's for over 30 years. I can put you in touch with them if you want the "best".

[wildweeds]

And more than likely the first couple  of names that come up are going to be Jim House of Jalos brittianys in portland area and  Clem and Marilynne Little of Shady's kennel in Enumclaw, I believe that Roger Borine is on the wetside too,but don't know if he is in the breeding aspect.All those would be forged in the fire bred for competition.

  For A well bred Roughshooters dog............. Jim Lallas at the Acme huntclub has a litter of brittaines in the oven right now,they will be whelped in early february,They are double bred on the winningest brittiany in NSTRA trials, 32xCH Nolans last bullet.Jim had a son of nolans last bullet,and a daughter of Beeline Wink.Seen them hunt and have seen the above mentioned horseback dogs do their thing too.Neither are better than each other,pretty much = in abilites.Jims britt pups go quick............... 360-595-0166,As a new guy your going to need some guidance that only personal interaction can do.He's got the land,birds and a ton of know how.

Send me a PM. I have a few contacts of folks who have been judging pointer FT's for over 30 years. I can put you in touch with them if you want the "best".

[johng]

Thanks Wildweeds and Happy!  I will be in touch with you and some of these guys to see what they have to say.  Just want to make sure I make the right choice for a novice gun dog owner.  I think it will be a ton of fun!!!

[Boom Stick]

I am on here to ask the very same question.  I see you mention horseback.  Would you recommend these breeders for the foot hunter?  Is there such a thing as a Brittany that hunts close vs. ranging?  I'm not looking for a show dog.  I want the Brittany for hunting. 

[Happy Gilmore]

I am on here to ask the very same question.  I see you mention horseback.  Would you recommend these breeders for the foot hunter?  Is there such a thing as a Brittany that hunts close vs. ranging?  I'm not looking for a show dog.  I want the Brittany for hunting.

it's more about who and how you train

[wildweeds]

I'll tell you a little story,I have a horseback field champion,I showed him to a fellow one time who told me the dog could never win a field trial because the dog did not run enough.......Bootsoles mean birds and horseshoes mean......... RUN FORREST  RUN.The key to it all is the brains in the breeding,if one willy nillys it together your bound and determined to get some knotheads.

As I've mentioned above,give the guy in Acme a call............he's all about the HUNT,I hunted with the prospective pups grandfather and he matched my pointer step for step,Jim hunted that dog on every bird this state has to offer plus ol shot would retrieve ducks from water.Shot was the only brittiany I've seen I would have owned.

I am on here to ask the very same question.  I see you mention horseback.  Would you recommend these breeders for the foot hunter?  Is there such a thing as a Brittany that hunts close vs. ranging?  I'm not looking for a show dog.  I want the Brittany for hunting.

it's more about who and how you train

[jetjockey]

I would give Jim House a call.  I believe he has a litter of pups on the ground right now.  I would lean more towards AKC trial dog lines then I would NLB's lines of dogs.  But thats just me.  For a hunting dog, either would probably be just fine, but I haven't been overly impressed with the run you get out of NLB dogs.  Before anyone bashes me for that comment.  Yes, I have hunted over several of NLB's direct offspring, and yes, I have watched some of them compete at trials.  You don't see a lot of NLB blood at AKC horseback trials, and I think there is a reason for that...   I like a dog that ranges.  Simply because you can always bring a dog in, its much, much tougher to push a dog out.  With that said, NLB dogs seem to have a pretty good natural retrieve in them.  If thats important, its something to think about.  Jim House is pretty well respected in the brit world though, and I think he had a dog that won the AKC Gun Dog Nationals one year.  He and the Littles are probably going to have the best bread brits in the NW.

[wildweeds]

I hear what your saying on the run thing,however the bullet dog I was enamored with was a mover and a shaker,Jim also had a big going pointer by Davis's Final Touch and ol shot would match him jump for jump and out bird the dog on grouse everytime.Jim sold a few to some CKC trialers in canada and they actually did quite well with them in SD stakes up there.Another fellow I know who is big into britts has showed me the last 3 he's gotten from supposed FT red hot breedings and they have all sucked,he's gotten rid of them all.One pup was so confimationally uncorrect she would run pretty good for about 45 minutes and then be a turd.She had VERY VERY bad splayed feet.Body mechanics are everything and if the feet are splayed it transfers to the ankle/elbow/shoulder.So anyone looking at a pup should check for tight feet in the front as well as straight legs and check the hind end as well,slight bit of cow hock is okay but the straighter the better.Also steer clear of the pup who bunny runs with both rear legs in tandem.More than likely a HB type dog is not going to be a good first timers kind of dog,I meet very very few people who will let a pointing dog work like it is supposed to range wise,most have the micro manager syndrome and want the dog no further away than the range of the gun + 10 yards.The biggest reason for it is the dogs are not trained very well and jump in and knock their game to flight.

I would give Jim House a call.  I believe he has a litter of pups on the ground right now.  I would lean more towards AKC trial dog lines then I would NLB's lines of dogs.  But thats just me.  For a hunting dog, either would probably be just fine, but I haven't been overly impressed with the run you get out of NLB dogs.  Before anyone bashes me for that comment.  Yes, I have hunted over several of NLB's direct offspring, and yes, I have watched some of them compete at trials.  You don't see a lot of NLB blood at AKC horseback trials, and I think there is a reason for that...   I like a dog that ranges.  Simply because you can always bring a dog in, its much, much tougher to push a dog out.  With that said, NLB dogs seem to have a pretty good natural retrieve in them.  If thats important, its something to think about.  Jim House is pretty well respected in the brit world though, and I think he had a dog that won the AKC Gun Dog Nationals one year.  He and the Littles are probably going to have the best bread brits in the NW.

[Happy Gilmore]

Brits can be really weird dogs in my opinion. Would not be my personal choice for a gun dog. I'd go with a wirehair.

[10Key]

I am no pro and Ive only had a dog (a Brit) for a couple of years. The guys that have chimed in are passing along some great information. I do not have specific breeder recommendations, but I am curious as to why you are leaning towards a Brit. In general terms, there are much better dogs if you want a hard-core hunter, but in my humble opinion, Brits make great house and hunting dogs, which many hard-core hunting dogs do not.

And yes Happy, Brits are weird, that's why we love them

[jetjockey]

Wild....   When I hear someone say they have high powered dogs out of Brittany FT stock it usually makes me quiver.  Im not sure how much you know about brits, but there is a huge push for people to get dual brits (trial and show champions).  The problem arises when a show dog needs to get a FC.  They will go to small weekend trials with very little competition to achieve this.  As of right now, a brit still has to win a "major" trial to be awarded a FC.  Unfortunately, the show people are trying to get that desolved so they can get more FC's with their show dogs.  Believe me when I say not all FC brittanys are created equal.  I have actually seen Brit clubs more or less tell Pro's not to show up at their trails because they didn't want the competition from the "real" brittany trial dogs..  The only brits I would look at would be dogs that have proven themselves in championship trials against other pro's strings.  I have seen supposed FC brittanys that probably wouldn't make a decent hunting dog, and were junk trial dogs..........   I will disagree a little on the HB dog not being a good first timers dog.  If the first timer is willing to listen, learn, and train their dogs, then they can be great first timers dogs.  Typically a good HB dog has shown they can be good on birds, handle properly, and take training pretty well.   My dad has a HUGE running little brit with rediculous amounts of horse power.  She is a handfull, but has learned to be a good foot hunting dog.  She needs more work on her birds, but shes pretty close.  If she was allowed, she would be a true All Age brit that could go for hours.  She was perfectly happy hanging at 700+ yards at summer camp this year, but she's a 200- yard dog off foot.  A true first timer should probably get a close working lab.  You don't really need to train a close working dog if all you want to do is kill birds.

Happy.. To each their own.  Ive hunted over 5 or 6 wirehairs, and my dog has ran against 3 or 4 in GD trials.  One was supposidly even out of a NFC.  I wasn't impressed.  I realize that 8 -10 dogs isn't a good reference point, but Ill get to see more run at the AKC GD Nationals at Ames Plantation in TN if February.  If I wanted a versatile dog then maybe, but otherwise, IMO brits are much better dogs.

[Happy Gilmore]

Wild....   When I hear someone say they have high powered dogs out of Brittany FT stock it usually makes me quiver.  Im not sure how much you know about brits, but there is a huge push for people to get dual brits (trial and show champions).  The problem arises when a show dog needs to get a FC.  They will go to small weekend trials with very little competition to achieve this.  As of right now, a brit still has to win a "major" trial to be awarded a FC.  Unfortunately, the show people are trying to get that desolved so they can get more FC's with their show dogs.  Believe me when I say not all FC brittanys are created equal.  I have actually seen Brit clubs more or less tell Pro's not to show up at their trails because they didn't want the competition from the "real" brittany trial dogs..  The only brits I would look at would be dogs that have proven themselves in championship trials against other pro's strings.  I have seen supposed FC brittanys that probably wouldn't make a decent hunting dog, and were junk trial dogs..........   I will disagree a little on the HB dog not being a good first timers dog.  If the first timer is willing to listen, learn, and train their dogs, then they can be great first timers dogs.  Typically a good HB dog has shown they can be good on birds, handle properly, and take training pretty well.   My dad has a HUGE running little brit with rediculous amounts of horse power.  She is a handfull, but has learned to be a good foot hunting dog.  She needs more work on her birds, but shes pretty close.  If she was allowed, she would be a true All Age brit that could go for hours.  She was perfectly happy hanging at 700+ yards at summer camp this year, but she's a 200- yard dog off foot.  A true first timer should probably get a close working lab.  You don't really need to train a close working dog if all you want to do is kill birds.

Happy.. To each their own.  Ive hunted over 5 or 6 wirehairs, and my dog has ran against 3 or 4 in GD trials.  One was supposidly even out of a NFC.  I wasn't impressed.  I realize that 8 -10 dogs isn't a good reference point, but Ill get to see more run at the AKC GD Nationals at Ames Plantation in TN if February.  If I wanted a versatile dog then maybe, but otherwise, IMO brits are much better dogs.

From a training standpoint and hunting on foot standpoint, I'll stick with WHP. They are easier to train and have less tendency to have issues through the training process IMHO. I've spend time around 4 every day all summer. another 2-3 on a semi-regular basis. The Brit club came out and had some training days at my place a few times. From an outsider looking in, I'd say getting a good birdy Brit which has what you need both as a pet and a gun dog is a crap shoot. I've seen some that are good training dogs but, not birdy, some that are birdy but don't like training and some that just don't want anything to do with neither birds or training. Not to say I haven't seen some good ones because I have and they train here everyday and became master hunters by the end of summer.

For an average guy who wants a dog with "out of the box" potential, I wouldn't recommend a Brit. You do have yours Professionally trained do you not? I think  a lot of folks make little mistakes with Brits and they are not forgiving dogs when it comes to training. I think a lot of folks end up at a Pro because of this. Most Pro's I know don't care for training Brits because of them being so "sensitive" and come with "baggage".....(always man-made problems) but, this does accompany their personalities in training. 

[johng]

Wow... thanks for all the responses and opinions... Now I am not so sure on the Brit.   

Basically, this will be my first hunting dog and what I am looking for is a good dog "out of the box" like someone put it in the thread.  I am not saying that I don't want to train with the dog or even go to a few classes from an expert but I don't want to end up buying some expensive dog that will not be a good choice for a guy who doesn't have unlimited time (or experience) to train his new dog.  Ideally, I want the breed and genetics of the dog to put me on birds and for me to just help him or her on its way.  I heard "Gun Dog" was a good book to get.  Perhaps I will buy a copy before purchasing my dog.

I have hunted with Brit (he was old but birdy), some labs and a German short hair.  I liked the hunting experience best with the old Brit and the German short hair.  The short hair was a great dog and had an awesome heart, very personable and is a great family dog as well but I think a little too high strung... I would be afraid of my new expensive doggie running off after a pheasant and not coming home... 

Hmmmm...maybe I need to look at the Springer Spaniel?

Cheers,
jg

[jetjockey]

Mine is trained by a pro, but only because the pro spends summers in SD and he can put the dog on more birds in one summer then I can in a lifetime.  I started her though, and she was broke by the time she was 14 months old.  She was easily trained and held point to the flush from day one...  There is a myth that brittany's are soft dogs, they aren't.  But you can't beat the heck out of them like you can an EP either.  The problem in the NW is that there just isn't many pro's Id send a brittany to, and many of the brits in the NW are not well bread dogs.  Basically, IMO there are only 2 trainers I would use on the entire west coast, and only a handfull of dogs I would consider breeding too.  Dave Walker, and Paul Doiron are great trainers.  Ive seen some of the work of a couple other Pro's, and to say I wasn't impressed would be an understatement.  The dogs turned out OK inspite of their training, not because of it. 

As far as it being a crapshoot to find a good brittany, thats total bunk.  I have seen very few that weren't bird fools by the time they turned a year old.  Their trial records in all breed trials speak for themselves.  Brits took 2nd and 3rd at the AKC GD NC at 9 mile falls this year and the winningest NSTRA dog in history is a brit.  Its going to be fun to watch all the dogs run at Ames this year at the AKC GD Nationals..  Id be willing to bet you see a brit on the podium when its all over.