Deer and Elk Hunting in Idaho and Montana After Wolf Introduction

[bearpaw]

Now I wonder what sitka has to say about the 27 head of cattle missing from McIrvins herd where the wolves have moved into GMU 105?

Same rancher had another 200 head grazing a different GMU in an area with no wolf activity and only 1 calf is missing. I guess that's just a coincidence.

[DaveBTS]

I moved to eastern MT at the end of February. There's been a few wolves spotted in my area, but I also see more deer in a day than I would see all season in WA. I could have gotten 10 (2 buck/8 doe) deer tags this year if I wanted. Plus, a spike with 4" or less antlers is considered a doe. That might explain the slight increase in actual harvest statistics.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a liberal hunting season and feel ranchers should be able to shoot any wolf they see on their property. I cant wait to fill my first tag!

[furbearer365]

Now that's funny! I told you, I lived in wolf country for most of my adult life. So I guess I get to have an opinion after all.

PS I'll help you out. If you ever want to go after a really big Sitka, head to Prince of Wales Island. As a bonus you can hunt for big black bears and wolves too.

And I know the difference between a Sitka and a Columbian. I grew up hunting Columbians and still chase them around.
[/quote]


Sitka, you continue to sidestep the point of peoples post.  I agreed that wolves are able to live with the animals of Alaska because they have done so for hundreds of years.  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REINTRODUCED WOLVES THAT OUR LOCAL GAME HAVE NOT HAD TO SHARE THEIR HOMES WITH.  Get in now, you can not compare the two.  Hell, bring some jaguars and african lions over because there are still game like impala and kudu so how could it effect our game.  I also meant talking with people that live in the "reintroductive wolf country." I.E. Idaho or Montana.  Once again, not a comparison to Alaska.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Sitka, you continue to sidestep the point of peoples post.  I agreed that wolves are able to live with the animals of Alaska because they have done so for hundreds of years.  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REINTRODUCED WOLVES THAT OUR LOCAL GAME HAVE NOT HAD TO SHARE THEIR HOMES WITH.  Get in now, you can not compare the two.

Prince of Wales deer have been there for a lot longer than the wolves. Wolves showed up on the Island about 2,000 years ago, deer have been there much longer. The deer there adapted to the predation. Just like the deer and elk here will. 

Deer and elk aren't stupid. They go all year without getting hunted, they are easy to find in the off season ,and after the first day of season, they get a lot harder to find. Why is that? Because they change their habits to survive. They head to the thick brush, they turn nocturnal, they go to private property or parks that don't allow hunting. They figure these things out. As I said, they aren't dumb. That is what they are also doing in response to wolf predation.  That is actually one of the reasons wolves are beneficial as they force game animals to move around more and not be sedentary. They are much less likely to stay in one area and overgraze because that makes them more likely to be preyed upon. 

Of course, that makes them harder to find for hunters who are used to finding them in easy to spot places. You have to change your hunting tactics, but they are still around.

[ICEMAN]

Sitka, how many deer or elk are killed each year by a single wolf?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Now I wonder what sitka has to say about the 27 head of cattle missing from McIrvins herd where the wolves have moved into GMU 105?

I've already said I advocate killing problem wolves.  If this was done by wolves and can be proven, take them out, and compensate the rancher for his cattle. But I'm not into taking action on hearsay.

Say I live in a neighborhood and your family moved in. I see you walking past my house. Driving around town.  Then a series of burglaries starts taking place.  I talk to a friend in the last town you live in and he says there was a series of burglaries there too, but they stopped after you left. And I talk to a friend in another town you've never been to as far as I know and he says they haven't had a burglary as long as he can remember.

Now if I was a suspicious guy, my wheels might get turning.  I might say, hmmmm that's a pretty good coincidence. I might be a little wary of you. I might even tell my suspicions to the local police officer. I might keep my eyes on you to see what you're up to. I might even make small talk with you to try to get a feel for you.  But I'm sure as heck not going to accuse you of something without darn good proof.  And I certainly wouldn't expect the police to arrest you on my suspicions even tho I hear you were out on parole.  And I'd be the first one to defend you if someone else said arrest him, it's clear he's responsible.  They catch you in the act or with the goods, that's a different story.

[Bob33]

Sitka, whether or not he can prove it his 27 cattle are dead.  When wolves kill cattle but the owner cant prove it, who compensates him?  Are you telling us that never happens?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Sitka, how many deer or elk are killed each year by a single wolf?

I don't know Iceman tell me how many? I know it's a lot smaller number than are eaten by wolves. And I know they eat a lot of animals besides deer, elk, moose, and caribou.  I've seen one eating a roadkill moose in a ditch, I've seen one trying to catch ground squirrels in an old gravel pit. Running from hole to hole as a squirrel would pop out. Bet I saw it go after 20 squirrels and not get one, but it didn't quit trying.

Now here's one for you. How many deer or elk are killed in a year by autos?

[wraithen]

Firstly sitka, catching a wolf in the act is near impossible. It's hard enough to convince some authorities that they exist. For the most part I seem to agree with you. But why try picking a fight just to get to this point? You said some brash things in other posts apparently just to get a reaction. I'm cool with that, but I think you did it the wrong way. I believe one of the things you said was that we should stop giving our money away to groups that want to help us combat the poor almost maybe plan that was forced on us recently. Why is that? Are there organizations that take our money and do things other than what they advertise?

Compensating ranchers is on paper a fine idea. The real world hasn't worked well for that. They want the wolf to hang around on the kill as proof. Then they run out of money. What's the grand scheme to fix that?

Lastly there are 3 bios. One of them speaks truths and doesn't try to justify their opinion beforehand. The other 2 are the pros and antis. They both are usually trying to further the agenda they have. How do we weed them out? Let's get solutions instead of finding problems.

Autos kill very few wildlife in this state compared to others I've lived in. Herds aren't there to cause the issues many other states have.

[seth30]

Sitka, whether or not he can prove it his 27 cattle are dead.  When wolves kill cattle but the owner cant prove it, who compensates him?  Are you telling us that never happens?

dont forget that a herd of cattle that is harassed by wolves gets overstressed and the cattles health and weight drop causing more issues for the rancher.  The ranchers should be paid for that loss as well

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Sitka, whether or not he can prove it his 27 cattle are dead.  When wolves kill cattle but the owner cant prove it, who compensates him?  Are you telling us that never happens?

I thought they were gone, not dead? Nobody knows if they are dead, even if there is a high probability. Wolves leave evidence, bones and hides.  For all anyone knows they were rustled or found a way to escape.  I'm not saying they were or weren't killed by wolves. I'm saying, where is the proof?

[wraithen]

Plenty of evidence from yellowstone that they won't leave anything after a few days.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Sitka, whether or not he can prove it his 27 cattle are dead.  When wolves kill cattle but the owner cant prove it, who compensates him?  Are you telling us that never happens?

I don't know, maybe a program like this.  http://www.mtexpress.com/2003/03-03-05/03-03-05wolfkill.htm   

or this    http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2011/12/oregon_begins_compensation_pro.html

Or maybe the same people (DNR?) that pay ranchers for deer and elk damage to their crops. Same darn ranchers that won't let hunters help keep the herd trimmed on their land. Well unless you pay them a fee maybe.

[bobcat]

Wouldn't be DNR paying for deer and elk damage. It would be the WDFW.

[Bob33]

Great idea, Sitka...from Idaho in 2003.

Here's the latest:
Announcement -
Wolf Depredation Compensation Program:
In September 2010, Defenders of Wildlife ended its wolf depredation compensation program in Idaho, thus shifting the entire livestock compensation responsibility to the State of Idaho. The State was recently awarded a new federal wolf depredation compensation grant titled the Wolf Livestock Demonstration project. The State of Idaho, through the Governor's Office of Species Conservation, is now accepting claims for verified and unverified wolf-related livestock losses. Claims for verified losses will take priority and will be paid at market value. Payments for unverified or missing livestock will be allocated on a pro rata basis