Knight Disc Extreme Peep Sight Question

[jbeaumont21]

Hey guys, I need some help picking the right peep sight for my KDE.  I ordered the Williams WGRS peep sight but I am wondering if I should have gotten the Williams FP.  It would appear  that the WGRS would be easier to install but the FP seem like it has more capabilities for wind and distance adjustments but harder to install.  Another difference seems to be where they mount on the gun.  The WGRS looks like it mounts in place of the rear sight where as the FP mounts in the rear scope holes giving you more distance between the peep sight and the front sight.  So with that said what is the consensus on which one is better and why?  Thanks in advance for the advice.

[sjhgraysage]

The Williams peep will install on the rear scope base position.
If your gun shoots decent with out much adjustment to the regular open sights the Williams peep should have enough adjustment to get you on target.
I put one on a TC Black Diamond, I liked it better that the factory opens.
Good luck.

[rickc]

I recently purchased both, not knowing for sure which way I wanted to go. Both will mount at any location. The only potential problem I see is that mounting the FP sight as far back as possible there may be problems with the bolt. I have the FP mounted as far back as possible and adjusted to be in line with the factory sights which I have sighted in and the bolt will just barely clear. I haven't had the chance to shoot it using the peep sights yet though. I believe others have mentioned they have concerns with this.

[jbeaumont21]

Thanks for the tips guys.  It seems to me that the WGRS would cause less issues of getting in the way of th bolt and easier to install, as long as it sits high enough to sight in at 100 yrds for a consistent pattern.  I dont plan to ever shoot much further then that so I'm not sure the FP would much of a benefit.

[sjhgraysage]

oops
I was refering to the WGRS

[kevinmeister]

Do you have the model number for the Williams WGRS and where I should order it from?  I want to put a peep on my Knight Disc Extreme.  Also, do you recommend a improvement front site post?  Seems like the orange fiber optic is too fat.  Thanks.

[Sabotloader]

Call Williams... 800 530-9028 ext 228 and talk to Steve about the Williams you might want.  He can help you with all the numbers.

Peep sights... the Williams varieties - I really prefer the FP sight to the WG sight.  The WG is what I call a 'slide and glide' adjustment sight and the FP is more like a scope adjustment - 1/4 min clicks for an 1" @ 100 yards.

There is an issue with the FP... The peep cross-bar can be in the way of lifting the bolt IF the elevation of the sight is adjusted all the way down to zero yards.... Normally this will bever happen but it has been discussed when people are installing the FP for the first time.  Once you raise the bar to the point that the gun is sighted in - then the problem is not longer a problem.  Your current front sight will detirmine the heigth of the lift of the elevation bar.

This is a picture of the FP installed on a MK-85



If you look on the left side of the sight to the elevation graduations - you can see that I have lifted the elevation several marks to sight the rifle in, at this point the bolt, if it had a bolt, would no longer contact the cross-bar.

For the front sight i would suggest that you replace the Knight sight with a Williams ramp, fire sight, and I added the firsight hood to give the sight picture that you see a more scope like view.



This sight can be installed on a Weaver scope base and looks like it might work very well...



I think coyotewallce also has another variety mounted on his might - PM him and get the information from him...

Hope some of this helps...

mike

[mbro]

Just the information I'm looking for... almost.  I come back home to hunt in WA every year, so I need the iron sights, and I have a new Knight Disc Extreme that I would like to put a Williams peep sight on. 

I like the idea of the adjustment system on the FP, but I'm wondering if that block at the side (elevation adjustment ways & screw) obstructs the bolt removal quick release button?  The WGRS seams like an obvious fit, but I'm concerned that it won't have enough elevation adjustment (the factory open sights are adjusted to the highest mark and shooting tight groups at about 60 yds but a little low for some reason- load: 45 cal 250 grain XTP/.50 sabot over 100 gr 777 ffg).

Pic showing 3 shots tight and then 1 after sight adj., but still low at 60 yds (from rest).


Anyhow, I like the idea of the range of adjustment of the FP, just seems like it might cover the bolt quick release button.  Anyone have experience with that?

[Sabotloader]

mbro

If the peep is installed in the rear two holes of the reciever it does not bother ther quick release.  Installing it there does cause a problem with lifting the bolt handle if the sight is set to zero elevation. But once you have the rifle sight in and the elevation level set that problem goes away...

[mbro]

Thanks, Sabotloader.  I think I'll give the FP a try.  I'll report back, if I run into any issues that you all should know about.  Thanks.

[kevinmeister]

Sabotloader,
Do you have a part number for the williams fiber optic front bead?  I ordered the wrong front sight from Brownells and after talking with them, they needed measurements to ensure I ordered the correct height. 

So far I successfully installed:
1) Willaims Steamlined Front Ramp
2) Fire sight hood. 
3) Williams FP Rear sight has been ordered and in the mail
Now just need to know the correct part number to order for the front fiber optic site bead to fit the steramlined ramp. 

Thanks in advance.   

[kevinmeister]

Sabotloader- PM sent.  Thanks!!!

[Sabotloader]

Sabotloader- PM sent.  Thanks!!!

sent one back your way...

[jbeaumont21]

Hey guys, can you share that part number for the williams fiber optic front bead? I broke mine tonight trying to install it so need to order a new one 

I was so excited, I finally received the hood that has been on back order for a month.  I filed down the grooves for the front bead and was gently tapping it into place and miss tapped and broke the fiber optic

Thanks in advance!
Jesse

[Sabotloader]

Hey guys, can you share that part number for the williams fiber optic front bead? I broke mine tonight trying to install it so need to order a new one 

I was so excited, I finally received the hood that has been on back order for a month.  I filed down the grooves for the front bead and was gently tapping it into place and miss tapped and broke the fiber optic

Thanks in advance!
Jesse

Just sent you a PM with the numbers...

But remember you can just replace the fiber optic piping.  It is available from Williams - get ahold of Steve @ extension #226.

mike

[jbeaumont21]

Hey guys, can you share that part number for the williams fiber optic front bead? I broke mine tonight trying to install it so need to order a new one 

I was so excited, I finally received the hood that has been on back order for a month.  I filed down the grooves for the front bead and was gently tapping it into place and miss tapped and broke the fiber optic

Thanks in advance!
Jesse

Just sent you a PM with the numbers...

But remember you can just replace the fiber optic piping.  It is available from Williams - get ahold of Steve @ extension #226.

mike

Thanks Mike, unfortunately I also broke two of the metal ribs that hold the fiber optic piping in place so I am going to have to replace the whole thing.  Thanks for the PM.
Jesse

[Sabotloader]

I am going to have to replace the whole thing

Shucks!!

[Elk whack master]

How muck of a 10" target does this sight front bead cover at 100 yards? The stock front sight covers the whole target at 100 yards. Just seems kinda hard to shoot tight groups when the bead covers the whole thing. Also how bright is this sight in low light and dark timber, compaired to the factory size fiber optic?

[Sabotloader]

How muck of a 10" target does this sight front bead cover at 100 yards? The stock front sight covers the whole target at 100 yards. Just seems kinda hard to shoot tight groups when the bead covers the whole thing. Also how bright is this sight in low light and dark timber, compaired to the factory size fiber optic?

If I remember correctly, when I am shooting a clay pigeon @ 100 the front bead will just about cover the bird, which really is not a problem because I use a 6 o'clock hold.  the bird sits on top of the front sight - so I see what and where I am shooting.

[Elk whack master]

Thanks i might go to this sight. Ill try raising my sight up the ramp a little more and try you aiming style. the rear sight is already 1/8" past the final line on the ramp.

[Sabotloader]

Thanks i might go to this sight. Ill try raising my sight up the ramp a little more and try you aiming style. the rear sight is already 1/8" past the final line on the ramp.

OK now you are making me THINK which is not always good!  So the front sight, is it a stock Knight sight?  If so I do not think you can change just the front sight.  If it is a Williams ramp sight you can push out the old sight and install a shorter sight so you can move the ramp back down.

Here are some examples of the 6 o'clock hold.  I am using a peep with a hood on the front sight so my sight picture looks like something like 'H'

[Elk whack master]

original sights that came with my disc .50

[Sabotloader]

original sights that came with my disc .50

Bout the only thing you can do is switch the front sight out or put a shim under the rear sight ramp

Actually might try going to the Knight site and email your problem in to them - they might surprise you and offer a fix.  Just tell them with your factory sights you are at the top of the rear ramp and still do not have enough elevation.

[fly-by]

Hi-

First post here.  Just getting back into hunting after a long break and am new to muzzleloading.  Hopefully I can get out enough this year to give back some good information on this site. 

Got a KDE as my first rifle and am very happy with everything but the sights as I can't focus on 3 things at once.  Based on this thread I got a list of parts then  spoke with Steve at Williams to verify that it all made sense for my application.  Here is what I got:

FP Legend TK sight  #54251  - Recommended in the catalog for the Knight Disc (I assume Disc Extreme too?)

3/16 streamlined ramp  #1690

.343 bead     #70031

Open top hood   #56435

Attempting to mount it, the inside of the bar with the elevation graduations contacts the stock such that the whole sight is torqued to the right.  This is the case even with the elevation all the way up so the the elevation adjustment screw is barely engaged.  If I flip it around backwards, it clears the other side fine.  The top of the stock near the two mounting holes is 0.29" on the left hand side, and 0.23" on the right.  The problem would only get worse when trying to decrease elevation on the sight since the stock is rounded outward as you go down.  Any suggestions?  Did I order the wrong sight or is the stock out of spec?

Thanks in advance

[Sabotloader]

Fist i need to ask is the DISC Extreme you have a knew one or an older model.  The new ones have a different bolt handle yjsy can be a very slight problem.  Next which stock does it have?  And finally are you mounting the sight in the scope holes on the rear of the reciever?

If you noticed there are 3 hole in the rear portion of the reciever - you would use the front two holes.

I think this picture might show...

[HornHoarder]

Since we are on the subject of peep sights I've got a question. I currently have a williams peep on my muzzleloader, but am considering switching to a truglo ghost ring. The small diameter of the williams peep makes shooting in low light difficult.

The truglo ghost ring has a much bigger hole, but also has fiber optics on each side of the peep. So it seems like it combines the two types of sights. My buddy has one his gun, and seemed to be getting good accuracy. Anybody else use these sights? Feedback? Drawbacks?

[Sabotloader]

Since we are on the subject of peep sights I've got a question. I currently have a williams peep on my muzzleloader, but am considering switching to a truglo ghost ring. The small diameter of the williams peep makes shooting in low light difficult.

The truglo ghost ring has a much bigger hole, but also has fiber optics on each side of the peep. So it seems like it combines the two types of sights. My buddy has one his gun, and seemed to be getting good accuracy. Anybody else use these sights? Feedback? Drawbacks?

One thing you can do is just remove the peep aperture from the sight and make the Williams work as a ghost ring....

[fly-by]

Sabotloader-

Thanks for all the pictures and advice.  It's a new rifle with a laminated stock and newer bolt style per your photo.  I am using the holes you mention.  I think I will just clearance the stock a little.  It already has a couple of bumps and bruises....   

[Sabotloader]

Sabotloader-

Thanks for all the pictures and advice.  It's a new rifle with a laminated stock and newer bolt style per your photo.  I am using the holes you mention.  I think I will just clearance the stock a little.  It already has a couple of bumps and bruises....

That is another one of those things that may have changed... I do not know who might be building the new Knight laminate stocks and it muct be a little thicker than previous models.  I believe the composite have stayed the same for the most post.

[maddog]

I just got this fp-legend-tk for my disc extreme.  The target knobs look handy to fine tune the sight in process, but not to handy for on the fly field adjustments.  Another option, just thought I would share.

[Sabotloader]

I just got this fp-legend-tk for my disc extreme.  The target knobs look handy to fine tune the sight in process, but not to handy for on the fly field adjustments.  Another option, just thought I would share.

Why did you mount it in front of the bolt? Normally - well most often they are mounted to the rear of the reciever...  You get a more a consistent sight picture that way... well I think that but that does not make it so...

[maddog]

That was my first option,but at least with the target knob version the bolt won't clear the sight.

[Sabotloader]

That was my first option,but at least with the target knob version the bolt won't clear the sight.

correct, because you have the new bolt handle, but ti only takes a bit of filing on the front bottedge of the windage drop and some aluma-black and you are right what you need to be... and I think you will like that setup better...

[maddog]

Looks like it would take roughly 1/8" of  material removed from the sight for the bolt to clear the sight.  This would include shortning the set screw 1/8" for the windage target knob.

[Sabotloader]

Looks like it would take roughly 1/8" of  material removed from the sight for the bolt to clear the sight.  This would include shortning the set screw 1/8" for the windage target knob.

If you were to do the trimming... Bore sight the gun in.  As the elevation moves the cross piece there becomes less material to remove.  Also as the bolt handle is lifted it moves away from the sight a tad bit...

You can see in the picture (bottom left picture) about the amount of material that needs to come off the bottom edge of the bar.

[fly-by]

I just finished mine and sighted it in this weekend.  With the .343 bead, it zeroes with the elevation scale about 1/4 of the way up.  This required grinding off a triangular shaped wedge of about 1/8" off the bottom of the windage post.  In my case it was not necessary to alter the windage knob set screw or threads

The Williams recommended .375 post would have made less clearancing necessary, but the .343 puts the bead pretty high within the sight picture of the front hood as it is. 

There is also a spot on the bolt where three angles come together to a point and snag on the sight.  I ground this down a little too.

Thanks for the responses.   

[Sabotloader]

I just finished mine and sighted it in this weekend.  With the .343 bead, it zeroes with the elevation scale about 1/4 of the way up.  This required grinding off a triangular shaped wedge of about 1/8" off the bottom of the windage post.  In my case it was not necessary to alter the windage knob set screw or threads

The Williams recommended .375 post would have made less clearancing necessary, but the .343 puts the bead pretty high within the sight picture of the front hood as it is. 

There is also a spot on the bolt where three angles come together to a point and snag on the sight.  I ground this down a little too.

Thanks for the responses.

Cool!   You got it all correct... the .343 is as high as you want to go in the hood - without the hood the .375 would have worked well - but I really like the site picture presented with the hood in place.

Hood.... one thing you might want to do - pull the hood off and squeeze the installation end of the hood a little bit to make the hood fit tighter.  I also use red loctite in the hood rails of the ramp to keep in in place.

[fly-by]

Yeah my hood fell off, luckily it was in the gun sock when I got home. 

What do you think about the aperture size?   Seems really big to me, though it's my first time using a peep sight.   Any thoughts on the merit adjustable aperture?

[Sabotloader]

Yeah my hood fell off, luckily it was in the gun sock when I got home. 

What do you think about the aperture size?   Seems really big to me, though it's my first time using a peep sight.   Any thoughts on the merit adjustable aperture?

for hunting the .091 Aperture is really very good, especially once you get some practice shooting a peep... Remember look through the peep and put the bead on what you want to shoot - do not worry about the peep...  You really have to let your eye and brain work.. the eye will center it for you but at first you will always try to make it better...  In low light I uncrew and remove the aperture and use the rear sight as a ghost ring - again let your eye work and trust it.

[usmc74]

They do make a "twilight" peep with a larger hole, and a brass ring to make it easier to see

[fly-by]

That may be worth checking out.  Since the whole sight picture is contained within the hood, it seems like a good setup would be sizing the aperture so the outline hood just fits in it.  In the case of this setup, just a little smaller than .091.   
However, after hunting with it this season I'm hesitiant to adjust anything.  Shot my first muzzy buck at maybe 30 yards and the larger aperture made it almost shotgun-like in terms of target acquisition.  Even though the hole looks huge when shooting paper at 100 yards, I suspect most of my shots will be 50 yards and in so no need to sacrifice field of view. Your brain really does seem to center everything subconsciously.
 

[Sabotloader]

That may be worth checking out.  Since the whole sight picture is contained within the hood, it seems like a good setup would be sizing the aperture so the outline hood just fits in it.  In the case of this setup, just a little smaller than .091. 

The problem here then becomes 'Light' in low light situations the smaller the apeture the more difficult it is to see through the apeture.  Williams does offer a Twi-light  apeture that helps a little bit.  Target shooting - use the smallest apeture you can. Hunting I think the .091 is good, even then in low I remove the apeture and use th erear sight as a ghost ring until I have enough light...

However, after hunting with it this season I'm hesitiant to adjust anything.  Shot my first muzzy buck at maybe 30 yards and the larger aperture made it almost shotgun-like in terms of target acquisition.  Even though the hole looks huge when shooting paper at 100 yards, I suspect most of my shots will be 50 yards and in so no need to sacrifice field of view. Your brain really does seem to center everything subconsciously.

that is really the key - let your mind do the working....