Been seeing some sick deer

[fish vacuum]

It's close to the time when deer start shedding their winter coats. Could be hair slip, but hope it's spring shedding.

[jdurham]

that small fawn must have been bread really late last year. I dont see why taking any doe's out will help rebound numbers , if the late fawns make it they make it .

I read an article by Dr. Deer, James Kroll.  He says that when there are too many does they do cycle for another 2 months.  He says this is a huge factor in buck mortality, especially in regions with harsher winter climates.  He claims the bucks actually wear themselves down to a point they can't recover from.  One rut, all the does covered so the bucks have a better chance to recover the stress breeding puts on them.  Makes sense to me.

[coachcw]

That sounds good , but I dont think the majority of our deer have a harsh winter . i'd say the reason we have so few bucks is mainly hunting preasure . Bald mountain road had a steady stream of trucks on it from the end of november trough december and they  wern't mushroom picking .

[jackelope]

It's close to the time when deer start shedding their winter coats. Could be hair slip, but hope it's spring shedding.

 

[boneaddict]

But good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything.   The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there. 

Instead of thinning out does they need to encourage recruitment of bucks.   Shutting down or limiting antlered deer harvest...HOWEVER because of local tribal practices this won't work.   I don't want this to be another tribal thread,  however, when one group of folks think they are outside of wildlife management do to "religious" reasons or "tradition", then what can you do.  It is their legal right eventhough it is contributing to the decline of the herd.   Easy winter for game only means easy access.   The deer would be better off if there was 4 feet of snow.

[norsepeak]

Instead of thinning out does they need to encourage recruitment of bucks.   Shutting down or limiting antlered deer harvest...HOWEVER because of local tribal practices this won't work.   I don't want this to be another tribal thread,  however, when one group of folks think they are outside of wildlife management do to "religious" reasons or "tradition", then what can you do.  It is their legal right eventhough it is contributing to the decline of the herd.   Easy winter for game only means easy access.   The deer would be better off if there was 4 feet of snow.

 

[muleyguy]

This is what happens when you have an extremely low buck to doe ratio. Does that are not bred the first time will come into heat again a month later, if not need they will come into heat a month later.

low buck to doe ratio is a problem, so is the age structure of the buck population........15 years of APR's in these units has decimated the age structure; 

But good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything.   The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there.

as was stated above, the solution is not to thin out does to get the ratio better;  the herds in these units are not even close to the carrying capacity of the habitat;

  the solution is to recruit more bucks into the population and to recruit more mature bucks into the population;  this will result in a healthier more balanced population with mature bucks doing the breeding;  not 1.5 yr old bucks;  that is the legacy of the 3pt or better rules in this unit for 15 yrs;;

 all that is left in these units post hunting season are 1.5 yr old bucks, because, that is the age population that is protected by the 3pt or better rules;

it is a tough goal  in these units to try and raise the number of bucks and age structure though because of the tribal pressure;  if you increase the number of bucks and the age structure of the bucks, the tribal pressure just increases;  this is why the WDFW abandoned the special draw in 342;  it was just a tribal free for all in that unit.

the above statement is not anti-tribal, it is just the facts.

no easy solutions for those units;  but, at the end of the day, while it frustrates all of us, the best solution is limit the harvest enough to recruit more bucks into the population and to get a better age structure going, and deal with the tribal issue as best you can;  road closures, a public relations campaign and trying to work with the tribe on self-enforcement might slow the tribal problem down enough to allow the herd to recover.

get rid of any and all doe tags(no matter the weapon choice), get rid of the APR's; and go to a limited draw again;  not what anybody wants to hear, and ,yes, tribal problems will go up.

BUT, going down the path that these units are currently on is a dead end road..........and it is likely we will never see this herd recover in our lifetime without drastic measures being taken.

[predatorpro]

I was told that wild turkeys caired the lice ? my guess is that the wdfw wouldn't point towards turkeys . i dont see to many fallow deer in the nile 

Heck, if that doesn't work, they can blame Bush. 

LOL dont give them any ideas....

[GrainfedMuley]

    especially when the deer numbers were starting to rebound a little bit.

Not with a growing wolf population...........

[buckfvr]

that small fawn must have been bread really late last year. I dont see why taking any doe's out will help rebound numbers , if the late fawns make it they make it .

I read an article by Dr. Deer, James Kroll.  He says that when there are too many does they do cycle for another 2 months.  He says this is a huge factor in buck mortality, especially in regions with harsher winter climates.  He claims the bucks actually wear themselves down to a point they can't recover from.  One rut, all the does covered so the bucks have a better chance to recover the stress breeding puts on them.  Makes sense to me.

        I think you guys are backwards......gestation is 190 to 200 days.  If you back up 6plus months from a spotted fawn seen recently, and guess it was born in february....the doe would have had to been bred in august, maybe end of july.

Second and third estrus cycles would be in dec and january resulting in july and august births.   It may be the results of a very unusual  indivual deer.

[lokidog]

I was told that wild turkeys caired the lice ? my guess is that the wdfw wouldn't point towards turkeys . i dont see to many fallow deer in the nile 

Most lice are species specific.  Some can infest similar species but rarely effect animals that are not the same type.  For example, duck lice will not infest a person.

[ribka]

Limited draw in 340 and 342 and put up gates from NOV to May. No motorized vehicles.  If tribal wants to hunt can walk or ride horses into hunting areas.

both units could put out some really nice bucks. Shame this state  is not interested in good management of it's game herds.

Good input Muley guy

This is what happens when you have an extremely low buck to doe ratio. Does that are not bred the first time will come into heat again a month later, if not need they will come into heat a month later.

low buck to doe ratio is a problem, so is the age structure of the buck population........15 years of APR's in these units has decimated the age structure; 

But good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything.   The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there.

as was stated above, the solution is not to thin out does to get the ratio better;  the herds in these units are not even close to the carrying capacity of the habitat;

  the solution is to recruit more bucks into the population and to recruit more mature bucks into the population;  this will result in a healthier more balanced population with mature bucks doing the breeding;  not 1.5 yr old bucks;  that is the legacy of the 3pt or better rules in this unit for 15 yrs;;

 all that is left in these units post hunting season are 1.5 yr old bucks, because, that is the age population that is protected by the 3pt or better rules;

it is a tough goal  in these units to try and raise the number of bucks and age structure though because of the tribal pressure;  if you increase the number of bucks and the age structure of the bucks, the tribal pressure just increases;  this is why the WDFW abandoned the special draw in 342;  it was just a tribal free for all in that unit.

the above statement is not anti-tribal, it is just the facts.

no easy solutions for those units;  but, at the end of the day, while it frustrates all of us, the best solution is limit the harvest enough to recruit more bucks into the population and to get a better age structure going, and deal with the tribal issue as best you can;  road closures, a public relations campaign and trying to work with the tribe on self-enforcement might slow the tribal problem down enough to allow the herd to recover.

get rid of any and all doe tags(no matter the weapon choice), get rid of the APR's; and go to a limited draw again;  not what anybody wants to hear, and ,yes, tribal problems will go up.

BUT, going down the path that these units are currently on is a dead end road..........and it is likely we will never see this herd recover in our lifetime without drastic measures being taken.

[bobcat]

Limited draw in 340 and 342 and put up gates from NOV to May. No motorized vehicles.  If tribal wants to hunt can walk or ride horses into hunting areas.

 

[EDT]

I wish elk and deer hunting in this state were special permit only.

[sweetlou]

I've been going on Ride alongs with F&W and we've had to put down a few deer because they were so sick.
A lot with fur disease around where i live also.