Ice melt on our roads hurting our vehicles!

[Missing]

Are you guy's kidding me? We all know that most people in Washington can't drive in the snow right, that has been said here more than once. Which do you like less sitting in traffic because someone crashes on a slick road or having to wash your car once a week. And as far as the stuff they spray on the road most agencies use a 23.3% salt solution, that is liquid salt, thats it. I drive I-90 several times a week and I wash my vehicle 2 or 3 times a month, my truck is a 2004 with no issues. Time to pull on the big boy panties and think about your friend, neighbor and family that are not as perfect of drivers you .

[Special T]

Cant drive in the snow?  Hell they can't drive in the Rain, Or even when that bright light in the sky gets in their eyes!  I think the only time the general public can drive around Seattle is when its over cast! Fortunately for them it is much of the time! I say its all the imports from other places... Definitely not the mid west type, likely most of the SO CAL's that moved up here...

[D-Rock425]

 

[netcoyote]

I lived in Ohio for 30 years and have a pretty good idea of what road salt can do to a vehicle. When I moved to WA, I considered it a bonus, like a raise in pay, to not have a vehicle rust out in a few years. I was amazed when I bought my first WA used car and found the underside almost like new when the car was ten years old. A ten year old car in the Midwest is ready for the scrap heap.

I read about guys saying they can wash the salt off. Nice try. The salt tends to leave a residue even after flushing with clean water and only a thorough scrubbing will you be able to remove enough to prevent corrosion. Since you cannot reach every crack, seam and crevasse in you sheet metal, the salt stays in those places to continue to do damage even after the outside appears clean.

I work on my own rigs and noticed this starting about 5 or so years ago. There is a lot more rust and pitting when working underneath a vehicle and parts that used to be able to be easily removed now need torches and hammers. 

I also agree with the thinking that it's the desire of people for the government to "do something" that started this. I always thought that the used of road sand was a much better traction enhancer but that now seems out of vogue.

Another mystery to me is that environmentalists aren't screaming about these corrosive chemicals being applied to roads that flush eventually to streams and waterways. Whatever happened to "saving the salmon"?? I guess what happens to salmon doesn't matter as long as you can drive your Prius to the latte stand without sliding off the road.

[trophyhunt]

I lived in Ohio for 30 years and have a pretty good idea of what road salt can do to a vehicle. When I moved to WA, I considered it a bonus, like a raise in pay, to not have a vehicle rust out in a few years. I was amazed when I bought my first WA used car and found the underside almost like new when the car was ten years old. A ten year old car in the Midwest is ready for the scrap heap.

I read about guys saying they can wash the salt off. Nice try. The salt tends to leave a residue even after flushing with clean water and only a thorough scrubbing will you be able to remove enough to prevent corrosion. Since you cannot reach every crack, seam and crevasse in you sheet metal, the salt stays in those places to continue to do damage even after the outside appears clean.

I work on my own rigs and noticed this starting about 5 or so years ago. There is a lot more rust and pitting when working underneath a vehicle and parts that used to be able to be easily removed now need torches and hammers. 

I also agree with the thinking that it's the desire of people for the government to "do something" that started this. I always thought that the used of road sand was a much better traction enhancer but that now seems out of vogue.

Another mystery to me is that environmentalists aren't screaming about these corrosive chemicals being applied to roads that flush eventually to streams and waterways. Whatever happened to "saving the salmon"?? I guess what happens to salmon doesn't matter as long as you can drive your Prius to the latte stand without sliding off the road.

Thanks for posting. I got a response from the dot, trying to figure out how to post it.

[trophyhunt]

Mr. xxxx,

Thanks for contacting us. Your concern was forwarded to me for response.
I am the WSDOT Branch Manager with oversight and support duties for the Statewide Snow and Ice Program.

We try to be very upfront and transparent about the materials and methods with which we respond to winter conditions. We have been using liquid anti-icers and salt for many years and we publish this information in a variety of ways. Our Website has information on anti-icer and deicer use http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/anti.htm, there are many media reports each fall and before every major storm event about the materials that WSDOT and local agencies are using to treat highways,  and we have pre-winter meetings and media events in many areas which discuss our plans and practices. Every snowbelt state in the U.S. uses some combination of salt, anti-icer and sand to provide for winter mobility since the traveling public and the freight community have come to expect that highways and mountain passes remain open year-round.

We use three different types of liquid deicer depending upon area specific needs and conditions. All of these materials have corrosion inhibitors added to them, but no deicer material is 100% non-corrosive.
They will tend to leave a film on vehicles so we encourage people to frequently wash their cars when they have passed over a treated highway.
We have looked at and tried alternative (non-chloride) materials, but they are extremely expensive and have environmental issues of their own.
Salt and liquid chloride anti-icers remain the most cost effective product for winter use.

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Thanks,

Monty Mills


Monty Mills
Maintenance Operations Branch Manager
WSDOT Maintenance Operations Division
310 Maple Park Avenue SE
PO Box 47538
Olympia, WA 98504-7358

[JimmyHoffa]

Another mystery to me is that environmentalists aren't screaming about these corrosive chemicals being applied to roads that flush eventually to streams and waterways. Whatever happened to "saving the salmon"?? I guess what happens to salmon doesn't matter as long as you can drive your Prius to the latte stand without sliding off the road.

One of the reasons cited by my county for using magnesium chloride is that it is the least toxic of the available de-icing chemicals.  It doesn't do as great of a job as the other salts when it comes to melting, but it was the 'eco-friendly' salt for the salmon huggers.  Supposedly it was even friendlier than sand/gravel.  Costs a bit more than a few of the other alternatives.

[wraithen]

Salty bleach! Yummy!

[netcoyote]

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Thanks,

Monty Mills

Hmmmm...I'll bet if I tried REAL hard I can remember being able to cross the passes back when they were only using sand and gravel. After all, there are some benefits of being a geezer.

[Chadrick60]

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Yeah right. Don't de-ice it. Use a plow and leave a layer of snow on it and watch me go. I don't need your deicer.  You want to know how I learned to drive in the snow? When I was 18 I would come home from work and watch the news. My favorite thing to hear was "Folks if you don't have to cross the pass then stay home" I would call my buddies and get in my little Ford Escort and tear off for the summit. I taught myself in the worst conditions I could. I think it should be mandatory to get some kind of winter driving class passed before you get your license. As for that deicer crap. The year they started using that crap my travel trailer wheels turned orange (rust) as well as the outdoor stove mounted to the side of my RV. I wanted to send the bill to the state for my new wheels. I was so pissed off. Great now you got me worked up about it again. Thanks a lot!!!

[KopperBuck]

Snow is not a problem. It's the ice....

[goosegetter79]

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Thanks,

Monty Mills

Hmmmm...I'll bet if I tried REAL hard I can remember being able to cross the passes back when they were only using sand and gravel. After all, there are some benefits of being a geezer.

City of Pullman and WSU still use gravel with very little de-icer. Lots of chipped windows and broken windows from gravel on roads.

[Special T]

Ice isn't even that much of a problem... Its poor drivers, too much speed, and not enough people with studded snow tires!

[Bean Counter]

Studded tires tear the $hˇT out of the road..the more people that use em the more cost cutting you can expect EDIT
WSDOT to employ. Your life is  worth more than the roads, but there are other ways to realize this (use chains, just stay home, etc).

[rtspring]

Been driving in washington since I was 16, I am 39 now. Not once have I ever had studded tires, or put chains on any vehicle I have ever drove. For five straight years I crossed over snoqualimie pass every weekend.

You dont need chains, studded tires, or any kind of ice melt..
You do need to slow down and remember the brake pedal on slick roads is your enemy....

RTSPRING