Ice melt on our roads hurting our vehicles!

[trophyhunt]

Is it just me or does the state/county putting the ice melt on the roads piss you guys off.  For years we've seen the rusted out cars that in the past have come from Canada or other states that salted their roads. Now in the past few years I'm seeing our roads getting the same treatment and the more I talk to my car repair friend the more it irritates me.  Just got back from Oregon dunes and it snowed on the way home, my friend didn't wash his toyhauler for 2 weeks. His stuff has always been very well taken care of, he showed me his wheels the other day and waiting the 2 weeks to wash his stuff caused rust to start on all 4 wheels on his trailer. The mechanic I know says you have to wash off your car/truck ect. everytime you drive on the roads when they put that s hit down.  It seems to me that if they put stuff on the road that ruins our vehicles that we should get to vote on it. What do you guys think about it.

[Atroxus]

I think they should put whatever is most effective on the streets. I would much rather have to wash my car, than have to get me and my car peeled off the the grill of a semi.

[rtspring]

yep it sure does,

I wash my truck all the time, atleast spray it off.

[bear]

It eats through concrete too.  Most concrete sealers won't hold it out because they are chemically based and so is the solution that they put on the roads.  Best thing you can do is to hose off your rig or let it drip off on gravel.  bear

[JLS]

I think they should put whatever is most effective on the streets. I would much rather have to wash my car, than have to get me and my car peeled off the the grill of a semi.

No kidding.  They are trying to make roads safer.  Have you called DOT about it, or just complain on the internet?

[wraithen]

Deal with it. You learn to hose your entire vehicle down at least once a week. Probably should do that anyway around here if you want your paint to remain looking good.

[Skillet]

I think they should put whatever is most effective on the streets. I would much rather have to wash my car, than have to get me and my car peeled off the the grill of a semi.

No kidding.  They are trying to make roads safer.  Have you called DOT about it, or just complain on the internet?

Couldn't disagree more.  "They" don't make the roads safer, people paying attention to WTF they're doing while driving do (ie., Guns don't kill people, people kill people).  "They" are spending tax dollars on laying this corrosive crap down when it is not justified (it never is - learn to drive in the climate in which you live, folks).  This is the same "They" that come to us and say they don't have enough money to fix the roads so we need to pay more taxes... the same "They" that try to legislate every bit of minutae of your lives to make it safer, and the same "They" that 99% of the frequent posters of this board bitch about when talking about our government pandering to the socialist Left.

So, I too get irritated when I see those lines of corrosive solution on the roads I'm driving on.  It represents the 9 scariest words you'll ever hear - "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" (thank you Ronald Reagan).

Voting on it ain't gonna help, though.  There are too many people out there who say "The government needs to make my life safe for me!"    So, a regular wash down is a necessity to keep our rigs looking nice.  If you feel like REALLY getting pissed off about this stuff on the roads, try taking an aluminum boat over the pass in the winter...

[rtspring]

Best part is the chit they put down don't even do what it is designed to do...

[sirfunkeybut]

I've almost been in wreck from that stuff, it's just as slick as ice

[wraithen]

I've almost been in wreck from that stuff, it's just as slick as ice

If it was the bluish greenish stuff it probably was ice. Seems like they use an alcohol mix. After 10 minutes you get all the alcohol gone and end up with slick pretty ice.

[sirfunkeybut]

I don't know what color it was but I can imagine the color of the driver undies as we slid by them pointed straight at them

[Atroxus]

I think they should put whatever is most effective on the streets. I would much rather have to wash my car, than have to get me and my car peeled off the the grill of a semi.

No kidding.  They are trying to make roads safer.  Have you called DOT about it, or just complain on the internet?

Couldn't disagree more.  "They" don't make the roads safer, people paying attention to WTF they're doing while driving do (ie., Guns don't kill people, people kill people).  "They" are spending tax dollars on laying this corrosive crap down when it is not justified (it never is - learn to drive in the climate in which you live, folks).  This is the same "They" that come to us and say they don't have enough money to fix the roads so we need to pay more taxes... the same "They" that try to legislate every bit of minutae of your lives to make it safer, and the same "They" that 99% of the frequent posters of this board bitch about when talking about our government pandering to the socialist Left.

So, I too get irritated when I see those lines of corrosive solution on the roads I'm driving on.  It represents the 9 scariest words you'll ever hear - "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" (thank you Ronald Reagan).

Voting on it ain't gonna help, though.  There are too many people out there who say "The government needs to make my life safe for me!"    So, a regular wash down is a necessity to keep our rigs looking nice.  If you feel like REALLY getting pissed off about this stuff on the roads, try taking an aluminum boat over the pass in the winter...

If you think that de-icing the roads with an effective de-icing agent doesn't reduce the risks of accidents, you are fooling yourself. I don't have a problem concentrating on driving, but a lot of other people in this state do. Until someone figures out a way to force the idiots to stop driving like idiots; I want the DoT doing whatever they can to minimize the chances of me or my family getting killed by one of those idiots. If that means some extra car washing throughout the year I am perfectly fine with it.

[ICEMAN]

Why is it the governments responsibility to treat for ice anyway? I can see plowing some main roads clear, but the jackazzes in Lacey treat every freaking stop sign approach, curves or cross roads anytime they feel ice is coming. Multiple applications per year.

I thought our budgets were tight?

How about doing nothing and letting folks get themselves to work like in the past?

[wraithen]

Not about that. You pay when you wreck. It's probably more about keeping transportation and truckers moving more than anything else. We all know what they really think about us.

[Atroxus]

Why is it the governments responsibility to treat for ice anyway? I can see plowing some main roads clear, but the jackazzes in Lacey treat every freaking stop sign approach. curves or cross roads anytime they feel ice is coming. Multiple applications per year.

I thought our budgets were tight?

How about doing nothing and letting folks get themselves to work like in the past?

Because back then there were FAR fewer cars on the road, and drivers tended to be a lot less distracted because they didn't have things like handheld computers, in car TVs/dvd players, laptop computers, etc.

[trophyhunt]

I think they should put whatever is most effective on the streets. I would much rather have to wash my car, than have to get me and my car peeled off the the grill of a semi.

No kidding.  They are trying to make roads safer.  Have you called DOT about it, or just complain on the internet?

Couldn't disagree more.  "They" don't make the roads safer, people paying attention to WTF they're doing while driving do (ie., Guns don't kill people, people kill people).  "They" are spending tax dollars on laying this corrosive crap down when it is not justified (it never is - learn to drive in the climate in which you live, folks).  This is the same "They" that come to us and say they don't have enough money to fix the roads so we need to pay more taxes... the same "They" that try to legislate every bit of minute of your lives to make it safer, and the same "They" that 99% of the frequent posters of this board bitch about when talking about our government pandering to the socialist Left.

So, I too get irritated when I see those lines of corrosive solution on the roads I'm driving on.  It represents the 9 scariest words you'll ever hear - "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" (thank you Ronald Reagan).

Voting on it ain't gonna help, though.  There are too many people out there who say "The government needs to make my life safe for me!"    So, a regular wash down is a necessity to keep our rigs looking nice.  If you feel like REALLY getting pissed off about this stuff on the roads, try taking an aluminum boat over the pass in the winter...

I also think it's easier to drive on the road when they don't plow it, the snow tracks are almost like a railroad when the snow gets deep enough- heck you can almost let go of your steering wheel (I did say almost so you don't have to slam me for that). Man how ever did we make it around this frozen tundra back in the years they didn't put this corrosive crap on the roads. And just like iceman said, thought they were broke. The aluminum boat example is great, it's f n scary what this s hit is doing to our stuff. I didn't know it takes sealer off of your concrete, that's neat since sealer is so cheap. Yes I could rinse my truck off every time I get home during the winter, but what a pain in the a ss. Especially the times my hoses are frozen and how about the ice skating rink you make by doing that.  Don't get me wrong, it's not the end of the world and yes there are far more important things in life to b itch about but this is a forum and yes it does bug the s hit out of me that they decide to ruin my hard earned toy's without even telling us we should wash our stuff off. How about a warning about it, don't you think that's the least they should do???

[Miles]

This cracks me up... You guys REALLY should not be complaining.  I loved the fact that vehicles didn't rust in WA.  In New Hampshire, about the time you're done paying of a vehicle you can push your finger through the rusted out fenders...


Plus every bolt is rusted to crap (torches are used, not wrenches), the gas tanks fall out when you hit a bump cause the straps are rusted through.  The rocker panels are GONE. And everything you try to work on takes twice as long cause it's all rusted together.

You folks in Washington have it easy.

[firefighter4607]

Ok first thing that I heard is you were on the Oregon coast for x amount of time...... When ever I go to the COAST I always wash my rig when I first get back. The saltwater that settles on your rig with the morning fog and the sand alone will rust anything metal. The DOT spray that stuff around here on just about a daily basis. I drive on the freeway every day to work so I drive on the liquid deicer and my rig hasn't been washed for months along with a few other coworkers and we have no problem with rusting. Are you sure it wasn't because of the coast the rust appeared. I don't like the stuff the DOT uses either but I doubt the rust was caused from it.

[fish vacuum]

I don't like it. Seems like it started a couple of years ago after that bad snow storm and everyone in Seattle was crying about the roads not being maintained. I'd rather have a few bad days a year without de-icer.
Hard to wash the car off every time you drive in it since it's used when temps are below freezing. Am I supposed come home at night and hose my car off in 28 degree temps?

[sakoshooter]

I think they should put whatever is most effective on the streets. I would much rather have to wash my car, than have to get me and my car peeled off the the grill of a semi.

Goes for me too.

[Miles]

Also, when you "wash" it off, it all mixes in with the water and gets in every little crack, place, and part on your truck/car.  Sure it's not as concentrated, but you essentially just spread it out over a bigger area on your vehicle.    A lot of people back east have the underside of their vehicles sprayed with oil in the fall.  This is to prevent (slow) it from rusting due to the high amounts of salt used on the roads.

[wraithen]

I know in NY the scam was to undercoat your vehicle. I call it a scam because I was told by a few garages I needed to have it done. My car had come from the factory with the entire bottom undercoated. I kept an eye on it. Whenever I asked why they would tell me my car was starting to rust from the bottom up. I then had them raise my car to show me. Oooops! What's all the black stuff?  Oil would be a horrible idea. They use something that looks more like spray on bedliner.

[Miles]

My truck came from Spokane (had the black undercoat) and has been parked in NH for 4 years.  The undercoat isn't holding up...   Anywhere that there is a hole in the frame/bolts/mounted hardware, it is coming off and surface rust is now noticeable.  If it was staying there another year, I would definitely have it sprayed.

What part of NY did you live in, and how long where you there? 

[wraithen]

Ft. Drum for about 4 years. Sorry to hear yours was coming off. Mine should have, I had a ford focus that was lowered and I couldn't get that thing stuck with blizzaks so I know I was always scraping. Maybe I got lucky though. I also washed that car every weekend whether the weather was good or bad.

[TheHunt]

It is crap for sure...  BUT it all started when the whiners from King County and Pierce County that cannot drive in the snow all started to complain.  Must be the California folks...   

I have to wash down the truck when they put that crap on the road.  I also see some very, very, minor pitting on my bumper so I waxed the entire truck and put on three coats of wax on the bumper to protect it. I think it is a conspiracy to make people buy new rigs. 

[trophyhunt]

My complaint has been sent, we'll see what they say if anything. My biggest gripe is if this stuff is bad for our rigs then why havn't they told us about it and told us how to take care or reverse the effects of the crap.

[Bean Counter]

Should the back of my  bear tag remind me of the dangers of trichinosis? 

[Happy Gilmore]

WSDOT was putting real salt on 203 when it snowed here the other day....right after a truck went by spraying de-icer? Thought that seemed weird.

[trophyhunt]

Should the back of my  bear tag remind me of the dangers of trichinosis? 

Really, we could go on and on with those kind of warnings. I don't think in general the public knows what that stuff does to our rigs. If you don't mind your sh it getting ruined by the stuff then that's your deal, I just think the public should know about it. And by the way, I'm sure we've all at one time in our lives been told about trichinosis.

[KopperBuck]

I drive 20 miles in WA, then 30 miles through OR to get to work, one way. I like WA roads much better. I guess I'm a double contributor to tearing the roads up, I run studs on my gals commuter. I like safe, I like control, and I like to be able to avoid others when they're slipping.

[Missing]

Are you guy's kidding me? We all know that most people in Washington can't drive in the snow right, that has been said here more than once. Which do you like less sitting in traffic because someone crashes on a slick road or having to wash your car once a week. And as far as the stuff they spray on the road most agencies use a 23.3% salt solution, that is liquid salt, thats it. I drive I-90 several times a week and I wash my vehicle 2 or 3 times a month, my truck is a 2004 with no issues. Time to pull on the big boy panties and think about your friend, neighbor and family that are not as perfect of drivers you .

[Special T]

Cant drive in the snow?  Hell they can't drive in the Rain, Or even when that bright light in the sky gets in their eyes!  I think the only time the general public can drive around Seattle is when its over cast! Fortunately for them it is much of the time! I say its all the imports from other places... Definitely not the mid west type, likely most of the SO CAL's that moved up here...

[D-Rock425]

 

[netcoyote]

I lived in Ohio for 30 years and have a pretty good idea of what road salt can do to a vehicle. When I moved to WA, I considered it a bonus, like a raise in pay, to not have a vehicle rust out in a few years. I was amazed when I bought my first WA used car and found the underside almost like new when the car was ten years old. A ten year old car in the Midwest is ready for the scrap heap.

I read about guys saying they can wash the salt off. Nice try. The salt tends to leave a residue even after flushing with clean water and only a thorough scrubbing will you be able to remove enough to prevent corrosion. Since you cannot reach every crack, seam and crevasse in you sheet metal, the salt stays in those places to continue to do damage even after the outside appears clean.

I work on my own rigs and noticed this starting about 5 or so years ago. There is a lot more rust and pitting when working underneath a vehicle and parts that used to be able to be easily removed now need torches and hammers. 

I also agree with the thinking that it's the desire of people for the government to "do something" that started this. I always thought that the used of road sand was a much better traction enhancer but that now seems out of vogue.

Another mystery to me is that environmentalists aren't screaming about these corrosive chemicals being applied to roads that flush eventually to streams and waterways. Whatever happened to "saving the salmon"?? I guess what happens to salmon doesn't matter as long as you can drive your Prius to the latte stand without sliding off the road.

[trophyhunt]

I lived in Ohio for 30 years and have a pretty good idea of what road salt can do to a vehicle. When I moved to WA, I considered it a bonus, like a raise in pay, to not have a vehicle rust out in a few years. I was amazed when I bought my first WA used car and found the underside almost like new when the car was ten years old. A ten year old car in the Midwest is ready for the scrap heap.

I read about guys saying they can wash the salt off. Nice try. The salt tends to leave a residue even after flushing with clean water and only a thorough scrubbing will you be able to remove enough to prevent corrosion. Since you cannot reach every crack, seam and crevasse in you sheet metal, the salt stays in those places to continue to do damage even after the outside appears clean.

I work on my own rigs and noticed this starting about 5 or so years ago. There is a lot more rust and pitting when working underneath a vehicle and parts that used to be able to be easily removed now need torches and hammers. 

I also agree with the thinking that it's the desire of people for the government to "do something" that started this. I always thought that the used of road sand was a much better traction enhancer but that now seems out of vogue.

Another mystery to me is that environmentalists aren't screaming about these corrosive chemicals being applied to roads that flush eventually to streams and waterways. Whatever happened to "saving the salmon"?? I guess what happens to salmon doesn't matter as long as you can drive your Prius to the latte stand without sliding off the road.

Thanks for posting. I got a response from the dot, trying to figure out how to post it.

[trophyhunt]

Mr. xxxx,

Thanks for contacting us. Your concern was forwarded to me for response.
I am the WSDOT Branch Manager with oversight and support duties for the Statewide Snow and Ice Program.

We try to be very upfront and transparent about the materials and methods with which we respond to winter conditions. We have been using liquid anti-icers and salt for many years and we publish this information in a variety of ways. Our Website has information on anti-icer and deicer use http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/anti.htm, there are many media reports each fall and before every major storm event about the materials that WSDOT and local agencies are using to treat highways,  and we have pre-winter meetings and media events in many areas which discuss our plans and practices. Every snowbelt state in the U.S. uses some combination of salt, anti-icer and sand to provide for winter mobility since the traveling public and the freight community have come to expect that highways and mountain passes remain open year-round.

We use three different types of liquid deicer depending upon area specific needs and conditions. All of these materials have corrosion inhibitors added to them, but no deicer material is 100% non-corrosive.
They will tend to leave a film on vehicles so we encourage people to frequently wash their cars when they have passed over a treated highway.
We have looked at and tried alternative (non-chloride) materials, but they are extremely expensive and have environmental issues of their own.
Salt and liquid chloride anti-icers remain the most cost effective product for winter use.

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Thanks,

Monty Mills


Monty Mills
Maintenance Operations Branch Manager
WSDOT Maintenance Operations Division
310 Maple Park Avenue SE
PO Box 47538
Olympia, WA 98504-7358

[JimmyHoffa]

Another mystery to me is that environmentalists aren't screaming about these corrosive chemicals being applied to roads that flush eventually to streams and waterways. Whatever happened to "saving the salmon"?? I guess what happens to salmon doesn't matter as long as you can drive your Prius to the latte stand without sliding off the road.

One of the reasons cited by my county for using magnesium chloride is that it is the least toxic of the available de-icing chemicals.  It doesn't do as great of a job as the other salts when it comes to melting, but it was the 'eco-friendly' salt for the salmon huggers.  Supposedly it was even friendlier than sand/gravel.  Costs a bit more than a few of the other alternatives.

[wraithen]

Salty bleach! Yummy!

[netcoyote]

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Thanks,

Monty Mills

Hmmmm...I'll bet if I tried REAL hard I can remember being able to cross the passes back when they were only using sand and gravel. After all, there are some benefits of being a geezer.

[Chadrick60]

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Yeah right. Don't de-ice it. Use a plow and leave a layer of snow on it and watch me go. I don't need your deicer.  You want to know how I learned to drive in the snow? When I was 18 I would come home from work and watch the news. My favorite thing to hear was "Folks if you don't have to cross the pass then stay home" I would call my buddies and get in my little Ford Escort and tear off for the summit. I taught myself in the worst conditions I could. I think it should be mandatory to get some kind of winter driving class passed before you get your license. As for that deicer crap. The year they started using that crap my travel trailer wheels turned orange (rust) as well as the outdoor stove mounted to the side of my RV. I wanted to send the bill to the state for my new wheels. I was so pissed off. Great now you got me worked up about it again. Thanks a lot!!!

[KopperBuck]

Snow is not a problem. It's the ice....

[goosegetter79]

I hope that this helps answer your concerns. Again, the best advice that I can give you is to wash your car when it has been exposed to treated highways, but enjoy your ability to actually cross the pass in winter time because you would not be able to do it if we didn't use deicers.

Thanks,

Monty Mills

Hmmmm...I'll bet if I tried REAL hard I can remember being able to cross the passes back when they were only using sand and gravel. After all, there are some benefits of being a geezer.

City of Pullman and WSU still use gravel with very little de-icer. Lots of chipped windows and broken windows from gravel on roads.

[Special T]

Ice isn't even that much of a problem... Its poor drivers, too much speed, and not enough people with studded snow tires!

[Bean Counter]

Studded tires tear the $h¡T out of the road..the more people that use em the more cost cutting you can expect EDIT
WSDOT to employ. Your life is  worth more than the roads, but there are other ways to realize this (use chains, just stay home, etc).

[rtspring]

Been driving in washington since I was 16, I am 39 now. Not once have I ever had studded tires, or put chains on any vehicle I have ever drove. For five straight years I crossed over snoqualimie pass every weekend.

You dont need chains, studded tires, or any kind of ice melt..
You do need to slow down and remember the brake pedal on slick roads is your enemy....

RTSPRING

[Special T]

Can't disagree to much there RTSpring..
BC we disagreed before on the whole studded snow tire thing, but if the deicer is having a negative effect on roads then studs can't be much worse.  Even still there are very few people who purchase snow tires let alone a good one like the blizzak or Hankook ones, Or Nokians.  A spare set of dedicated snow rims and snow tires, studded or not, is a great investment. The last few times i have put the wifes tires on there was already snow on the ground! Even people with AWD need good tires, and that seems to be something that many people try and avoid...

[Missing]

The reason agencies are using more chemicals and less sand is because the Department of Ecology has determined that the sand is hazardous to fish once it enters any waterway and must be swept up and that the sand once on the road and mixes with the hydrocarbons it is then a hazardous material and has to be treated as such. That means that it will cost you $50 to $75 dollars a ton to dispose of.