Down goes illuminated nocks!

[huntnphool]

It is all numbers game and comes down to fighting between user groups and in this case inside of one user group.  It has been said that nothing has been taken away because of improved equipment and that is true.  Days in the field and permit numbers change based on hunter success reports.  When lighted nocks get passed if at any time the archery success numbers go up and the other group stays the same, modern or muzzy will argue that the harvest numbers have increased because there is more technology on the bow and it is not such a primitive weapon anymore, true or not definately debatable, but they will ask to have their season increased so they get their fair share of the harvest.  WDFW won't increase their seasons but they can shorten the archery season or give out fewer permits to decrease archery harvest.  It may have just been a great year for hunting and that is why the numbers seemed higher, not because of the lighted nocks, but logic isn't excatly the basis for WDFW decisions, it is the squeaky wheel or the person yelling the loudest from their porch as others have said.

So instead of fighting to get our archery elk back closer to the rut, we fight over a lighted nock that in the end they give us and because of it the modern and muzzy guys have more fuel (justified or not) that we have too much technology so the game department takes more days away.

I personally don't care if they allow them or not, I think it is a choice for each to make.  If in the end I lose hunting time because of them then I am definately against that.

just my

if you believe this theory then the theory of less overall animals killed applies as well, and isn't that a very important factor?

[Rainier10]

Less overall animals killed how?  Are you talking a decrease in harvest for some reason or a decrease in lost animals?

[huntnphool]

Less overall animals killed how?  Are you talking a decrease in harvest for some reason or a decrease in lost animals?

You state that the harvest could increase. Since a lighted nock is "reactive" and not "proactive" the only affirmation for your theory is it will decrease the amount of lost animals, which therefore prohibits the hunter from killing another, resulting in less animals being killed each season.

[Rainier10]

Less overall animals killed how?  Are you talking a decrease in harvest for some reason or a decrease in lost animals?

You state that the harvest could increase. Since a lighted nock is "reactive" and not "proactive" the only affirmation for your theory is it will decrease the amount of lost animals, which therefore prohibits the hunter from killing another, resulting in less animals being killed each season.

That is definately an argument for having lighted nocks, game recovery, the problem is how to quantitatively put a number to how many animals are not being lost and another one shot in its place.  They only have numbers of actual harvest to base their decisions off of and that is if people report honestly which is a whole different can of worms that has been argued forever.

[huntnphool]

Less overall animals killed how?  Are you talking a decrease in harvest for some reason or a decrease in lost animals?

You state that the harvest could increase. Since a lighted nock is "reactive" and not "proactive" the only affirmation for your theory is it will decrease the amount of lost animals, which therefore prohibits the hunter from killing another, resulting in less animals being killed each season.

That is definately an argument for having lighted nocks, game recovery, the problem is how to quantitatively put a number to how many animals are not being lost and another one shot in its place.  They only have numbers of actual harvest to base their decisions off of and that is if people report honestly which is a whole different can of worms that has been argued forever.

True, but you do realize that for your theory to be proven, that would mean that animals that were otherwise lost without lumenoks were now found, resulting in less animals being targeted overall.

[huntnphool]

You can't have it both ways. If you claim that lumenoks will result in a higher harvest percentage, knowing lumenoks are purely "reactive", then the higher percentage is a direct result of being able to locate the animal AFTER the shot and nothing more.

Why would anyone argue that's not a good thing to employ!

[Rainier10]

You can't have it both ways. If you claim that lumenoks will result in a higher harvest percentage, knowing lumenoks are purely "reactive", then the higher percentage is a direct result of being able to locate the animal AFTER the shot and nothing more.

Why would anyone argue that's not a good thing to employ!

I am not claiming that they would equate to higher a success percentage.  My argument is if in 2012 the reports say archers are 10% successful and the other two user groups are 11% successful and the following year with the addition of luminoks archers jumpt to 12% success and the other groups stay at 11% they would argue that it was because of the luminoks when in fact it could be anything that caused the increase.  Not to mention you can actually juggle the success numbers to show anything you want.

I don't think the luminoks make a big difference and don't care if they get used or not, but I do think that there are those that would argue that they did help archers so seasons should be shortened.

If they do help find game that otherwise would not have been recovered great.  If they only help archers find lost arrows that I personally wouldn't shoot again anyways but they want to great.  If I end up losing time in the woods due to shortened seasons.. not great.

I do wish people were more vocal about getting our seasons lengthened and moved back closer to the rut than they seem to be about a lighted nock.

[huntnphool]

You can't have it both ways. If you claim that lumenoks will result in a higher harvest percentage, knowing lumenoks are purely "reactive", then the higher percentage is a direct result of being able to locate the animal AFTER the shot and nothing more.

Why would anyone argue that's not a good thing to employ!

I am not claiming that they would equate to higher a success percentage.  My argument is if in 2012 the reports say archers are 10% successful and the other two user groups are 11% successful and the following year with the addition of luminoks archers jumpt to 12% success and the other groups stay at 11% they would argue that it was because of the luminoks when in fact it could be anything that caused the increase.  Not to mention you can actually juggle the success numbers to show anything you want.

I don't think the luminoks make a big difference and don't care if they get used or not, but I do think that there are those that would argue that they did help archers so seasons should be shortened.

If they do help find game that otherwise would not have been recovered great.  If they only help archers find lost arrows that I personally wouldn't shoot again anyways but they want to great.  If I end up losing time in the woods due to shortened seasons.. not great.

I do wish people were more vocal about getting our seasons lengthened and moved back closer to the rut than they seem to be about a lighted nock.

those lost season days are gone for good, the only way they come back is through some kind of revenue generation stream.

[jackelope]

For-so I can find my arrows.

Against- not consistent with P&Y standards.

That's my take.

I obviously can't speak for all, but I am in favor for the reason of being able to identify if I may have missed where I was aiming. That way I know whether I can retrieve my animal or give it time to expire without pushing it.

Agreed. I think I would only use them for targets or 3d shoots. I'd hate to shoot something and not be able to put it in the books if I wanted to. Don't know if I'd do that either but I don't want the chance and not be able to.

[Rainier10]

those lost season days are gone for good, the only way they come back is through some kind of revenue generation stream.
[/quote]
They may be gone, again debatable, but the shift in the early archery away from the floating post Labor day start to a fixed 8-20/21 is still possible, also debatable.

[huntnphool]

those lost season days are gone for good, the only way they come back is through some kind of revenue generation stream.

They may be gone, again debatable, but the shift in the early archery away from the floating post Labor day start to a fixed 8-20/21 is still possible, also debatable.
[/quote]Its not by accident, they did the same thing with modern deer seasons, all in the name of revenue. It would not surprise me to see those dates you lost come back as permit dates, if at all.

[Rainier10]

those lost season days are gone for good, the only way they come back is through some kind of revenue generation stream.

They may be gone, again debatable, but the shift in the early archery away from the floating post Labor day start to a fixed 8-20/21 is still possible, also debatable.

Its not by accident, they did the same thing with modern deer seasons, all in the name of revenue. It would not surprise me to see those dates you lost come back as permit dates, if at all.
[/quote]
Oh the almighty dollar, that and the squeaky wheel seem to be the driving force in all WDFW policy, the latter being a distant second to the dollar.

[boneaddict]

TF, My statement wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.   It does have to do with this being the 15th or so thread about this topic.  I have no idea if this is an old one revisited or a new one.  I just happened to check in against my better judgement.

I am hard to peg on this as it really means little to me.  Most of the time it seems like I am argueing against them.  Most of that is poking fun for those so adamentally for them.  I don't like change and I don't like technology much, especially when it comes to hunting.   

My thought process if I can explain this and it seems like I have somewhere on the 5th or 6th one of these.....I know we are very capable of handling more items than just one or two.    Its more like if 10,000 of us all stood up at once and said treatys need to be dealt with NOW and then there was deadly silence, there would be impact.  Instead we may have x amount saying that, x amount say wolves, x amount saying seasons, x amount saying lighted fire stick, x amount saying discover pass, x amount saying right to carry.   I am guessing out of human behavior they pick which is the easist to fix in order to shut some people up, and justify that they are doing something.   I am hoping this makes some sense as I really don't feel like trying to explain it more.   Thats where I am coming with this.   I know this means something obviously to some folks, I see the little emoticon of you banging your head on the wall.  This must mean alot to you.   Its probably wrong for me to blow it off.   I do have concerns about technology overwhelming the hunt and seasons being shortened.  I do worry about people taking shots they shouldn't.  I honestly think its nutz that people can't find their arrows or think this will help them recover their animals.   Even these great monetery losses everyone thinks they have.  If they are shooting and losing that many arrows, then maybe they need to look at what they are doing, or learn to shoot better.  I even think in my mind.  If you aren't close enough to see and its not light enough to see bright fltechings and nocks that we have today then maybe you should adjust your hunting style a bit.   Maybe thats arrogance.  Of course I want animals to be recovered, but really, how about putting gps chips in our arrows.  We will find everyone of them that way, and every animal we shoot?   Does that sound farfetched?   There is a limit out there for all of us, where we draw the line.  For some this is it.  Who are we to judge where the next line will be.  I guess thats where stupid is.   
Whether its passed or not, I won't hunt with them or need them.   If I do shoot a monster I wouldn't mind entering it as well.   Somewhere out there I think technology needs to slow down and hunting needs to take over.   I am almost positive I have offended you or someone else in all of this.   I expect all sorts of comments.  I am very likely not to return to this thread as again it means very little to me and I am really surprised at how passionate people are who think we need these things.   It is their rite to want and ask for them.   I sincerely hope that those that are opposing it are all wrong as I am sure this will be passed.

[92xj]

You should have a blackpowder flash on your camera that you hide under a black cloth with the little squeeze ball picture taking device thingy, on a wooden tripod.


When you read this and get a little chuckle out of it, delete it with your mod ways.  No need to get this going any other random off topic direction.  A simple joke is all it is.

[boneaddict]

I would KILL to have one of those.    Believe it or not, I picked up an AE-1 to play with.   Its almost hard to find film these days :chuckle:n   ESPECIALLY for the polaroid I just got.