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Author Topic: Climate change deniers should be happy  (Read 3590 times)

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2019, 09:36:36 AM »

The jig is up.  It is time to reveal these secret, reliable alternate power sources that promise to replace existing baseload power generation, such as coal, oil, and natural gas do.  That or It's time to admit that no such sources exist.

Make your choice.
:rolleyes: I'm unclear if you're proposing anything or just finding problems with any potential solutions.  It seems like your only proposal is to continue with the same dirty technology and continue to mine coal, oil and gas without exploring other options. 

There is no simple solution, or cheap one (including the status quo) that will meet everyone's needs.  I think the obvious first step is to conserve energy wherever we can, and find ways to make our current power grid more efficient, including long term plans for hydro, wind, and solar development and maintenance.  We should also continue to regulate industry that has the potential to pollute our air and water. They're not going to spend money to scrub their emissions without Gov regulations and we need to make sure it happens.

As much as I hate regulations, they exist for a reason. 

Eyeroll until your heart is content. 

Your answer is that there are no "reliable alternate power sources that promise to replace existing baseload power generation, such as coal, oil, and natural gas."  So any plan proposed by current pols and their followers is nothing but an empty promise designed to emotionally manipulate non-thiinkers.

I am proposing the status quo, unless and until there is a reasonably reliable replacement for current baseload power generation requirements, in response to the non-problem of man's CO2 emissions.  Clear?

Sure, go ahead and primp and prune around the edges with efficiency and infrastructure improvements while exploring alternatives that can provide some intermittent power.  (Just so you know, hydro is a no no to green types, too. So it is not fair to include such in a littany of alternate sources, especially when hydro is a long-standing non fossil fuel power source that we are already exploiting.)   

Unless you are willing to talk about large scale nuclear power generation projects, you simply are not going to get to baseload power generation requirements with wind and solar.


You seem to want to pick a fight over clean air and water that nobody else is having.  :dunno:


Are you hiding an implicit assumption that you would like to share?  Because I don't believe anyone here is suggesting we pollute air and water, rollback improvements to the IC engine that has drastically reduced emissions, and/or stop using improvements made in coal power production that has also lead to emissions improvements.


I think you are going to have to allege that CO2 is a pollutant at some point, and we can discuss whether natural CO2, pre-industrial CO2, or prehistoric CO2 emissions is more a pollutant than your respiration.


Some regulations exist for the sole reason to pick winners and losers, chosen by central planners, so that they can line their pockets.  I think we can agree on that.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Offline Chesterdog

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2019, 02:02:21 PM »
They protested the natural gas plant in Tacoma and failed.  They sued and failed.  The plant passed the EPA study, so the new tactic is to block it for the sake of the Orcas.  Explain to me why research in alternative energy sources  is on the list.  The eco friendly left has been hijacked by a vocal minority that wants everybody to ride bikes to work and power their homes on love or positive vibes. 

https://komonews.com/news/local/feds-propose-adding-15000-sq-miles-of-west-coast-as-protected-habitat-for-orcas

You guys in Eastern Wa. are lucky.  They only pumped the brakes on the bike lane thing here in Seattle when people realized that a majority of users were affluent white men (who probably would have used public transportation anyway).  Now they're removing car lanes and adding more bus lanes in a similar fashion.  Because after they install heroin injection sites downtown and legalize drug use, the bus will be a safe place for everyone. Take away guns and give away heroin is what I'm hearing.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 02:13:29 PM by Chesterdog »

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2019, 03:00:02 PM »
And there it is.

Quote
Democrat Tim Ryan says the that government needs to be involved in "family planning" to stop overpopulation

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1174800273325187072

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2019, 04:00:00 PM »
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/11062019/epa-climate-change-anti-science-rebuke-gop-former-administrators-thomas-whitman-reilly-mccarthy

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/etc/cron.html

The GOP hasn't always ignored climate change.  This is a fairly recent phenomenon and one that has only to do with money.  The idea that trying to address climate change is too expensive is embarrassing and is a narrative that they sold to paint anyone looking for solutions in a negative light.  Now you're denying that elevated levels of CO2 is a threat to our climate?  You are scratching a place into a more radical space.

I am proposing the status quo, unless and until there is a reasonably reliable replacement for current baseload power generation requirements, in response to the non-problem of man's CO2 emissions.  Clear?

Its astonishing to me that you can take such a smug, and willfully ignorant, position on an important environmental issue.   Sadly, I don't think I can point you towards any science that would help you understand the issue. 

Are you hiding an implicit assumption that you would like to share?  Because I don't believe anyone here is suggesting we pollute air and water, rollback improvements to the IC engine that has drastically reduced emissions, and/or stop using improvements made in coal power production that has also lead to emissions improvements.
Sorry if I've been unclear with my assumptions.  I assume that lots of folks are suggesting exactly those things under the guise of "too much regulation".  I assume they are doing it because they are hearing such nonsense from Fox news, 45, et al., who have a lot to gain by polluting our air and water and denying responsibility for climate change. 

"Climate Change Deniers" make a point to reject good science to further some agenda, typically it's financial but I suspect in this case it is 100% based on an opportunity to counter any kind of progressive policy.  Good luck with your messaging, I hope you're right, but literally every reputable scientist and scientific organization in the world agrees that anthropogenic climate change is a reality.  https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

We're not going to agree on this and any effort to persuade you with data or science (NOAA, NASA...) is going to get shrugged off as 'fake news'... It's also fair to say that I think your Weaselzippers, twitter, and blog posts are ridiculous and were shrugged off immediately. 

Cheers- I'm done here.


Offline idaho guy

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2019, 04:13:19 PM »
Meanwhile we need to remove all dams which produce the most renewable energy in the world without air pollution. look at the phone in your hand and seriously consider if we couldn't make a fish ladder that every single fish could get across. Tear them out and put up windmills!! There is no logic in the green thinking. First it was global warming till record winters forced them to change the narrative to "climate change". Pretty hard to disprove climate change when it literally changes by the hour sometimes. And has changed warmer and cooler since the beginning of time.     

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2019, 04:31:29 PM »
I am proposing the status quo, unless and until there is a reasonably reliable replacement for current baseload power generation requirements, in response to the non-problem of man's CO2 emissions.  Clear?

Its astonishing to me that you can take such a smug, and willfully ignorant, position on an important environmental issue.   Sadly, I don't think I can point you towards any science that would help you understand the issue.


Watch your tone, and stop acting like the science is settled.   

You had your chance to ram down your pie in the sky envirotopia fantasies on a bunch of indoctrinated, easily emotionally manipulated children the last administration, and just like with all lefty pipe dreams, you (the royal you) overreached, and people said whoa, wait a minute, let's have a rational conversation about this.

Remember when the left was discussing jailing so-called "deniers" the last administration.

 :sry:


If the science is so strong, it would stand for itself.  It doesn't, and so it gets politicized by likely well-meaning but useful tools.   Politicized science is not science at all.


We agree on one thing.  You can't point me toward any science that would help me understand why you need to be bamboozled by the issue into thinking humans are a pollutant. 

Cheers, to you too, sir.  I'll be here, when you are ready to come back and be civil.


Oh and stop trying to wrap up every objection you have into "climate change."  Nobody is calling for polluting air and water, for profit or otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 08:22:59 AM by Fl0und3rz »

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2019, 04:40:31 PM »
Now you're denying that elevated levels of CO2 is a threat to our climate? 

Except for the present discussion on proposed "solutions" and their inability to meet baseload power requirements (where it is presumed that man-made CO2 is an actual problem), that has always been my premise, and it seems to have proven out over the many interations and revisions of models and doom and gloom predictions. 


But hey, we only have 12 more years, right?

:chuckle:

Face it, you've been bamboozled by a bunch of hucksters pimping their prepackaged socialist utopias, because it feels good or affirms your biases. 


Instead, look at the data and what they have to do to it to get these doom and gloom predictions, positive feedback mechanisms, and exaggerated CO2 sensitivities.  Be a scientist.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2019, 04:46:13 PM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/tesla-installs-supercharger-station-powered-diesel-generator-nurburgring

If only a magical clean power source could be erected overnight instead of this dirty, portable, highly efficient, diesel engine as a power source then the unicorns could be happy.


Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2019, 05:16:26 AM »
Quote
Williamson made the remarks while answering a question from a college student who wanted to know why she thought that nuclear energy was problematic.

"Well I know Germany had said at one point 'we're just going no nuclear,' but then when they said no nuclear there was a problem because they had a hard time keeping up with the other standards they agreed to," Williamson said. "What is wrong with it? If something goes wrong with nuclear energy, I don't think people have really stopped to take in the horror."

"See we need an integrated politics, we need to go beyond hard data, we need to go beyond just thinking about the facts," Williamson continued. "I want you to think about this with your heart."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/51992/marianne-williamson-nuclear-energy-dont-use-hard-ryan-saavedra

I don't know.  Sounds like "willful ignorance" to me.

:chuckle:

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2019, 05:20:26 AM »
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/09/student-climate-change-activist-the-world-is-ending-what-are-we-studying-for/

Yes . . . Good . . . .

Now get yourself a sandwich board and find yourself a street corner.  The end is near, climate sinners.  Repent by voting for the green new deal.

:chuckle:

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2019, 06:16:04 AM »
The GOP hasn't always ignored climate change.  This is a fairly recent phenomenon . . . .

Credit where it is due.  You are right.

We took a look at the data, we took a look at all the wild-eyed projections, and we said:  What a minute. What is going on with these data manipulations designed to make the problem seem more dire?  What about the past warming trends pre-industrialization?  How does your models explain these?



https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions


You know what you said?  HERETIC!!  DENIER!!  JAIL THE DENIERS!!  BURN THE HERETICS!!

So naturally, that piqued our interests and caused us to investigate further.  Know what we found?  More unjustified manipulations of data.  More silencing tactics used to shut down critics.  An entire mechanism of casting out critics of climate orthodoxy.  You know what we found, my friend?  Not science at all.  Religion.


So yeah.  You bet. It is a recent phenomenon.   Good thing, too.  You squeaky wheels almost had the American public hoodwinked with another of your ecological doomsdays, likely indoctrinated and impressed upon you throughout your school, before you were able to think critically about things, just so you could usher in your grand socialist utopia.


This is a fairly recent phenomenon and one that has only to do with money.

Funny.  You are right here again, but not in the way you think.  Rather than go back and double down on the science, showing the American people the data that is supposedly imminently there and in our faces (rising oceans, no more snow, islands under water, famine, etc.), it is now a grand dark conspiracy of a secret cabal plotting to end the world in ten years (how that is supposed to be profitable for anyone, we are left to just believe). This is politicization of science.

You point the fingers at deniers for doing the same when data manipulations are legitimately questioned, indicating or implying that there is no personal profit motive for slipshod science.  This is a topic for another thread, but I think you and I both know that this is not the case.

The left has a long history of climate doomsday predictions which haven't panned out.  Just taking AGW into consideration, its legacy of failed predictions is embarrassing enough.  Apparently, we continue to pay these people good money for their shoddy work, because it is like a cottage industry with certain disciplines.  It's as predictable as it is arrogant to think that current crop of doomsayers will be any more accurate than the last several crops.

Politicization of science is not science.  It is the labor of propagandists.


Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go deposit my secret coal and oil cabal dividend check before the bank closes.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2019, 06:23:17 AM »
Wake yourself up already.

Quote
Child Hostages Obey Their Climate Captors

The emotional, physical, and intellectual damage wrought by the climate change movement now is coming into clear view. It’s an outcome that should enrage every parent.

On Friday, schoolchildren around the world will be prompted to walk out of class as part of the “Global Climate Strike.” These young “climate strikers” will protest alleged inaction on climate change and promote an end to fossil fuel use.

“Our house is on fire—let’s act like it. We demand climate justice for everyone,” the event’s website warns.

It is the latest stunt orchestrated by the international climate cabal and yet another example of how the Left shamelessly exploits and manipulates children to propagandize any cause. (Think of the high school students in Parkland, Florida.) But this time, the climate cabal is using a special-needs teenager from Sweden to indoctrinate more children and adults with climate change dogma.

Greta Thunberg is a 16-year-old from Stockholm—which is ironic because the teen exhibits many traits associated with a hostage attempting to please her captors.

In a way, Thunberg is not the face of a climate crisis but an alarming example of how the climate cabal has needlessly terrified two generations of young people. The emotional, physical, and intellectual damage wrought by the climate change movement now is coming into clear view and it’s an outcome that should enrage every parent.

https://www.amgreatness.com/2019/09/19/child-hostages-obey-their-climate-captors/

Or continue to be manipulated as a child.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Climate change deniers should be happy
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2019, 08:25:16 AM »
As much as I hate regulations, they exist for a reason.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/09/yang-ill-cut-down-on-meat-consumption-by-making-it-expensive/

These regulations will exist to pick winners and losers and force some central planner's life choices on others as a "solution" to the non-existent problem of humans exhaling plant food.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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