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Author Topic: Best Elk "muzzleloader Bullet" that I've found and (isn't) a muzzleloader bullet  (Read 4320 times)

Offline AutumnPulse

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This post is a reprint of what I wrote in 2021. I'm not reposting to get more "likes" or critiques. I'm reposting this because some of you are going to type "best elk bullet for muzzleloaders" into the search bar and your going to get back lots of posts about someone who shot an elk with a bullet and it died....so.....A+  That is not enough for me. 

I'm 50 years old  and have been casting my own bullets for my muzzleloaders for 39 years.......However, as a reloader and rifle bullet performance "junky" good enough doesn't exist.  I want data and experience.  When it comes to muzzleloader bullets and elk hunting, I just don't see a lot of choices out there, for projectiles that are designed for muzzleloaders and engineered for elk size animals.   Elk are as different from deer as the statements "floatn' the river in a tube w/ a beer cooler" and "Whitewater Rafting"........ 

I'm reposting this information for the 3% of you who truly want the best combo that someone is willing to post about and you are willing to do the work....to work with it........  And yes, that is what it will take.  If you would rather throw dollars and 30 minutes time at solving this, than go with whatever.....   If you actually care and have shot your muzzleloader twice in the last 30 days in preparation for elk season....and want the best bullet combo, for elk.....Than THIS POST IS FOR YOU.......

But yes, it is a reprint.  I can't add to what I wrote in 2021 any better than what is listed.     
   

My friend and I spent yesterday at a personal 150 yard range (owned by a friend) sighting-in and shooting our muzzleloaders for the upcoming muzzy-elk season, which is coming up on us....FAST!  6 weeks and it's GO-TIME!!!
I've long been a reloading fanatic and am constantly looking for the best recipe for any given situation; And with elk hunting, the scenarios can be endless.  I haven't lost many elk, but I have lost a couple, and it is truly devastating when it happens....

5 years ago, we switched from Rifle (general) to Muzzleloaders for the elk season.   It was a good switch, as the pressure in the Eastern WA Mtns. is ALOT lower and no one in my camp is the spray and pray type...... One opportunity, producing one shot is more than adequate.  And yes.....because we are human, have botched some of those......   
I've shot plenty of elk and I've seen good performance and horrible performance, even if i've recovered the quarry.  Muzzleloading (with slower than rifle velocities) introduces a whole new realm to elk hunting.  (It's my belief that most muzzy bullets are mass-produced and are designed for whitetail.)  I've shot a lot of deer, but bucks ain't what I'm thinking about year around...........It's Bulls!

So what do you choose when you want to elk hunt with a muzzleloader and don't wanna grab a Powerbelt off of the shelf?  I would point you to the Barnes Bullets, but I myself refuse to use them.  ( But I would rather you choose Barnes Bullets than a powerbelt)   My brother swears by them, but I've lost two animals that were solidly hit by them and neither one opened up to provide any kind of wound channel.  That is my personal opinion and this "post" is about offering another "option".  My day job includes metallurgy so I understand changing metal properties, probably better than most, so I won't suffer any arguements, in this regard.  I know the ins and outs of heat-treating metal and just how sensitive (and vulnerable) it can be.   I purposefully choose bullets that have "some" lead in them......
 
So.....Here's my thoughts:   I've shot Elk with hardcast bullets out of my muzzleloader.  Did I get awesome penetration?  Yep, pass-through penetration and didn't recover the bullets..... Have I lost elk with hardcast?  Also, Yes...... If your shot is less than perfect, hardcast will "pencil" through like a laser-beam and won't do much damage.....  The blood-clotting ability of an elk, is simply unmatched.....They'll take a solid lung hit, give you the middle finger, and die somewhere within a 5 mile diameter, after they they have "clotted" and purchased themselves another 20 minutes of running........
 
With off the shelf bullets, You can expect something all together different, especially with a shoulder shot.......  We can't use scopes here in WA, so all of the ballistic Coefficient doodads, count for nothing.... If you're getting 2" groups at 100 yards, please PM me and let me know what sight config, your rockin'.....  Our party has decided that if we can hit an 8" paper plate at 150 yards, (with open sights) we are good to go.....  (Now I also know that there is a whole community of peep sight/ladder sight folks out there that can do better than this,) but my counter arguement is a bull in the timber at 30 yards.....   A WA elk hunter needs to be able to do both..... (a shot at 30 and a shot at 150)
   
Here is the recipe that I firmly believe in:  I would take this over a Thor, Barnes, custom bullets from all mfg's like T/C, Remington, CVA or ANY of the other brands........  Again, those companies are in the business to sell stuff and designing bullets are going to be 100% geared for whitetail which all of the lower 48 states have...... WHICH MEAN SALES FOR THEM!!!!   Elk are a WHOLE different animal......... You need POWER  with something that has superb penetration and good expansion at lower velocities.......

Here is what we are using:   We use a 350 Grain Swift A-Frame Bullet, which if you ask any pro-hunter, is theeeee benchmark for penetration, with expansion...  If you're going to Africa, they will tell you to get Swift A-Frames, Woodleigh WeldCore's, NorthFork's and finally, Nosler Partitions, if none of the others are available......

So with Muzzleloaders, what is the name of the game?  We have slower velocities, but want deep penetration.  What bullet would slightly open up, but NOT go complete mushroom, so as to allow the bullet to retain it's weight as it travels through the animal?  When I first started pondering this, I had a muzzy that didn't like anything beyond 100 grains of powder....  WA changed it's rules 2 years ago and we can now use 209 ignition, but we can't use scopes..... I have a T/C Triumph and I freeeeekin' love it!!!!   ..

I use a 350 Grain Swift A-Frame (45-70) (.458) bullet.....  (I own a 45/70 guide gun, which is the best damn timber-elk rifle on the planet, and so these bullets can be dual purpose)......  In my 50 Cal. muzzleloader, I want a bullet that will expand at lower velocities, but KEEP it's mass, so as to push as deep as it can through the bull...... and we pray for an exit wound, which will make tracking easier......  This is ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE for a muzzleloader, shooting reasonable distances, with a 350 grain Swift A-Frame bullet. 

We were shooting at 100 yards, 3 inch high (100 yard) zero, with open sights and this bullet performs flawlessly.......  We use a Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot (orange color-coded for .458 diameter) and 120 grains of 777 FFG to push it.....along with Fed. 209A primers.......  This load produces 1850 fps average and I am confident out to 150 yards........

This load is NOT designed for deer...... It'll work, but a Powerbelt will too.  Powerbelts, (as expensive as they are) are designed for deer. This load is for ELK, and if you are going to put in the time to get up there, put in the miles and seriously go after them, then you want a load that will be commensurate with the effort you put in.....  THIS IS IT.............

If you want this, you will need a sabot that accommodates this bullet.  To my knowledge only one mfger makes it, and it is what I use.  It's a Harvester "Crushed Rib" Sabot designed for .458 bullets.  They are color coded just like different gauges in shotguns, so pay attention: If your going to use a 45/70 bullet, like I described, you ONLY can use an "ORANGE" sabot from Harvester Muzzleloading.  www.harvestermuzzleloading.com     If someone else is making .458 sabots, I am not aware.  If you know who is, please let me know!

This post is meant to be informational, even if you can't obtain what you need this year, from all of the mfgers.  The shortage is a mess and I'm genuinely pissed about all of the mfgrs. being out and all of their primary carriers, also being out.  Powder, Primers and Bullets are a trick to find these days in WA or online, but it will ease up......It always does.......   BUY THIS $H*T IN JANUARY.......   You hunt every year, so buy ahead.......  Is it expensive?   Yes......but you can relegate it a bit........  I shoot Sierra " Hot-Cor" or Hornady 350 grain for my practice rounds...They are $40 a box.   Swift A-Frames are 92.00 for a box of 50.....Is it worth it?   Damn Right!      How much do you spend taking the time off of work, and pullin' a trailer or tent and (all of your supplies) up into Elk country?   Your spendin' $700 plus to get up there, ( at the least) and you wanna throw a walmart bullet at your big bull opportunity?

Here is some data that we pulled yesterday:
Load:
350 Grain Swift A-Frames, Sierra Hot-Corrs, @ 100 yards
Federal 209A Primers
120 Grains of T7 FFG Powder  (Hodgdon 777 Powder)
Harvester .458 Sabots for muzzleloading  (orange color)
We had a chrono and we dug some bullets out of the bank.
Average FPS was 1842 w/ 120 Gr. of 777 FFG.

Lowest (recovered) weight of the A-Frames was 327 Gr. from a bullet that hit an old bicycle frame, buried in the backstop....which caused the shredded petal.  The others had 330 grains+ and perfect mushrooms,......and these were with a muzzleloaders!   If you need an elk bullet, this is it.........

I hope this has helped you and NOT given you anxiety.......But then again, I would rather trouble your ass now, then to for you to blow the shoulder out on a trophy bull that you spend 3 days looking for, but never recover........



Online High Climber

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Good stuff  :tup:

Offline spin05

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Great info. I use to Muzzleload back in early 90's. Been archery since 1997. Back then i use to shoot 550gr bullet for the same reason. I only hunted elk. I shot keith flat nose style solid lead bullet. I forget the name and no sabots. I dont think they where even legal then.   My son and i are dabbling back into black powder in preparation for drawing multi-season elk tags.   so again thanks for the info . We may look into these bullets. We have not even shot our muzzleloaders yet but are not hunting with them this season.

Offline lazydrifter

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You can't even enter the Harvestermuzzleloader store anymore.  Must only be selling to their dealers.

https://mmpsabots.com/store/orange-hph-sabot50-pcs/

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/red-high-pressure-muzzleloader-sabots/
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 08:59:39 AM by lazydrifter »

Online JakeLand

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Haven’t had one “ get away “ using Barnes T-EZ bullets and they’ve all expanded just like they’re suppose to . Deer,Bear and Elk have all been on the opposing end of them

Offline Westside88

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Great info, thanks for sharing. Is this the bullet you’re using?

Offline Sabotloader

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It has been a very long time ago, but when I first started shooting Elk with a ML, I stared using Barnes bullets and then switched rather quickly to Nosler Partition bullets .458x300 grain bullets.  The were really devastating on the elk that I shot with them, close range or long range.  Then a friend of mine introduced to me an unknow builder of bullets, Dave Fricke.  He was making a brass using a German theory of Controlled Fracturing. These bullets were all that they were marketed to be: Accurate and Devastating using the Controlled Fracturing theory of operation. Since those beginning days I have never looked back.  Dave did end up supplying Knight rifles with the Bloodline Bullets, eventually create a company called Lehigh Bullets to manufacture both copper and brass bullets.  These days Dave has recently bought SSK Firearms and sold Lehigh to Wilson Combat who continues to make the copper bullets.

The Lehigh type bullets I will continue to use as I have been really succesful with these CF bullets.



This is an example of the bullet one of may favorite copper Lehighs



But my favorite bullets continue to be the brass bullets, 



With the purchase of SSK I believe Dave will get back into making a variety of brass bullets. Right now he only has one bullet on the website.  A .458x265 mated with a Harvester Crush Rib sabots for a 50 cal rifle.  I have only tested that bullet at the range so far.  It shoots Great!!

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline WSU

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Why did you switch away from Barnes?  They've been very effective for me on elk.

Offline Sabotloader

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Why did you switch away from Barnes?  They've been very effective for me on elk.

I shot a couple of deer with them at very close range and they passed right through.  I did get both animals a does and a 3 pt. buck but I did have to track them a good distance.  I then decided I need to hit a major bone at close range.  From there I navigated to the Nosler brand which is what I used while rifle hunting.  Just my opinion but they worked much better.  The CF's work amazingly well.  Haven't looked back from them as of yet.

Just got some new SSK's yesterday.






« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 01:24:50 PM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Kingtr

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I've been using the 330 gr 50. Powerbelt ELRs for the last year and shot a deer last September and cow elk last December. With the combo of 90 gr weight of Blackhorn 209 measured with a good powder scale, Williams precision sights and good eyes I am able to shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards and confidently hit a paper plate at 200 yards. I jumped my deer and shot it at 15 yards so whos' to say how the bullet performed after it blew a baseball size hole out the side of the buck from that range. I did shoot my elk at 165 yards right in the boiler maker. It took about 3 steps and tipped over. When i was gutting it I cut the diaphram and the entire heart and lungs came out like soup. There were no recognizable organs inside and no bullet fragments. I'm guessing the bullet explodes once its inside. Although there wasn't bullet retainage like you want to see, the shear damage at 165 yards and accuracy is enough to keep me using my current setup.

Offline AutumnPulse

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2024 Muzzleloader Bull......Pass through after breaking ribs and taking out the Lungs.

 


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