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Author Topic: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)  (Read 1310 times)

Offline Wolfdog2314

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Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« on: February 20, 2024, 10:27:22 AM »
Anyone a good gear head here? First time replacing ring/pinion  bearings. Im rebuilding a high pinion Dana 44 out of a 79 250 to put in my 1970 250 to gain disk brakes.

Heres my gear pattern, with setup bearings and setup union pinion bearing race. Backlash is at .006. Preload of 12 or so on the pinion.



 Any opinions on what I should try? Or run it??? I have these posted on a Facebook group. Just trying to get some opinions. Thanks!


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Offline Wolfdog2314

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2024, 01:26:04 PM »
Ok this is where Im at for now until I get some opinions. .009 backlash.




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Offline deerlick

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2024, 01:33:24 PM »
looks like your pinion is to close, take 3 thousandths shim out of the pinion depth and check again.

Offline James

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2024, 02:23:51 PM »
Unless I am mixing up your drive side and coast side it to me like your pinion is too far out.

Put that pinion deeper in, and reduce the spacers/shims on your ring gear side carrier bearing to get the backlash back in check.  You will need to add more shims on the opposing carrier bearing to keep your carrier bearing preload in spec.


What is your process for setting up a rear end? I get pinion depth and ring gear side shim pack dialed in first, then calculate out the number of shims needed on the non ring gear side carrier bearing.

Oddly, this is the best visual I have seen showing how changes affect the pattern:
You will never shoot a camp bull by spending all your time hunting in the woods.

Offline Wolfdog2314

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Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2024, 02:33:17 PM »
looks like your pinion is to close, take 3 thousandths shim out of the pinion depth and check again.




This is basically how this pattern was ran, with the pinion depth decreased slightly, before I got to what I have now.

Offline Wolfdog2314

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2024, 02:41:56 PM »
Unless I am mixing up your drive side and coast side it to me like your pinion is too far out.

Put that pinion deeper in, and reduce the spacers/shims on your ring gear side carrier bearing to get the backlash back in check.  You will need to add more shims on the opposing carrier bearing to keep your carrier bearing preload in spec.


What is your process for setting up a rear end? I get pinion depth and ring gear side shim pack dialed in first, then calculate out the number of shims needed on the non ring gear side carrier bearing.

Oddly, this is the best visual I have seen showing how changes affect the pattern:
I labeled below, the coast and drive side.

At .009 it says in still in spec (.006-.010)

Ive watched virtually every video and write up out there. Just trying to get some others opinions. That is a great video for sure!
Its tough getting conflicting opinions at the same time tho ugh!




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Offline James

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2024, 03:57:48 PM »
I am a big fan of centering face to flank and being about a 1/3 up from the toe.  Ideally with both coast and drive, but that's not always possible.

Your pattern with 0.06" BL isn't bad. 

The 0.09" pattern the coast side it too close to the toe and I would honestly redo the pattern on the drive side, it's not clear to me what's going on there.


What's your process?  It seems like you are not making adjustments systematically in a way so you can get what you want. I know I am very OCD with setting up gears, but if I am honest it makes it faster in the long run.


You will never shoot a camp bull by spending all your time hunting in the woods.

Offline Wolfdog2314

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2024, 04:32:44 PM »
I am a big fan of centering face to flank and being about a 1/3 up from the toe.  Ideally with both coast and drive, but that's not always possible.

Your pattern with 0.06" BL isn't bad. 

The 0.09" pattern the coast side it too close to the toe and I would honestly redo the pattern on the drive side, it's not clear to me what's going on there.


What's your process?  It seems like you are not making adjustments systematically in a way so you can get what you want. I know I am very OCD with setting up gears, but if I am honest it makes it faster in the long run.

Thats why Im here, to get advice from someone who has done this plenty of times to know! I appreciate it.

My process has been to set pinion preload, for setup bearings around 10.
Set backlash between 6-10 thou.
Run pattern.
Adjust pinion depth per the pictures/guides I find online.

The difference between the two sets of patterns here was the addition of a .005 shim to the pinion. So if I removed it, that would go in favor of what you originally suggested to reduce pinion depth.

Thanks again, total noob to this!

Offline James

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2024, 05:28:58 PM »
Couple things that might help you out:
As you know, changing pinon depth with shims will change backlash, BUT moving the ring closer or further away from the pinion using carrier bearing shims will too.

Rule of thumb:
Moving the carrier 0.010 toward the pinion to decrease the backlash by 0.007
Moving the carrier 0.010 away from the pinion to increase the backlash by 0.007

This dana service manual is basically the procedure I use to get my shim packs correct on the pinion, and both carrier bearings.  I know it's for a D60, but the procedure is the same. With a little digging you can find the D44 manual.

https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/LYRk9ScYgfJ9eBT6u/AXSM-0070.pdf?token=eyJhdXRoVG9rZW4iOiIifQ%3D%3D&store=original

I don't have a pinion depth tool, so I typically start with the pinion shims that it came with and make a change based on the markings (page 15).

Then do steps 11-34 on pages 13-21.  The carrier shim procedure is more or less steps 11-12 and 30-34.
You will never shoot a camp bull by spending all your time hunting in the woods.

Offline Wolfdog2314

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2024, 06:43:53 PM »
Couple things that might help you out:
As you know, changing pinon depth with shims will change backlash, BUT moving the ring closer or further away from the pinion using carrier bearing shims will too.

Rule of thumb:
Moving the carrier 0.010 toward the pinion to decrease the backlash by 0.007
Moving the carrier 0.010 away from the pinion to increase the backlash by 0.007

This dana service manual is basically the procedure I use to get my shim packs correct on the pinion, and both carrier bearings.  I know it's for a D60, but the procedure is the same. With a little digging you can find the D44 manual.

https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/LYRk9ScYgfJ9eBT6u/AXSM-0070.pdf?token=eyJhdXRoVG9rZW4iOiIifQ%3D%3D&store=original

I don't have a pinion depth tool, so I typically start with the pinion shims that it came with and make a change based on the markings (page 15).

Then do steps 11-34 on pages 13-21.  The carrier shim procedure is more or less steps 11-12 and 30-34.

All great stuff, thanks so much! Ill start again within the next couple days and post my results back here again. This time a little more methodical and with more patience lol

Offline deerlick

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2024, 09:33:59 PM »
Dana 44 is not the easiest rearend to learn on. Your first pattern isn't terrible especially for a front diff you won't be hearing all the time. Keep at it

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2024, 11:55:07 PM »
I would use your first pattern.  The coast side is the important one for front diff. 

Offline deerlick

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2024, 08:08:51 AM »
that would be correct if it was always engaged and spinning, that diff will have manual hubs and id rather have a wider pattern on the drive side if planning on using it hard in 4x4

Offline James

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You will never shoot a camp bull by spending all your time hunting in the woods.

Offline Wolfdog2314

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Re: Ring and pinion setup (read my pattern)
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2024, 11:32:54 AM »
Thank u all for the help. Yes it is the front dif.

Ill be digging back in to it over the next couple days. I appreciate the tips and links!

Additionally, this truck is going to be a street queen for the most part. My dad passed down his 1970 highboy to be last spring.  Not looking to use it for much 4x4. But at the same time I want to have the front end fully serviced/rebuilt. Ive replaced everything from the outside down to the gears now. (Hubs, spindles, wheel bearings, calipers, all the seals, and now to finish up with these bearings)

 


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