The Best Glue?

[konrad]

I know this is going to sound silly but here goes:

I have been fletching my own arrows for thirty five years. I started out with alloy shafts and feathers. I have arrows done twenty years ago that still are on so tight you will need harsh language, determination and a razor knife to get those feathers off. They were all applied using Fletchtite glue. I fooled around with carbon shafts but eventually returned to alloys. I gave up the feathers and went to the two inch Blazers in ’08.

At that time, I was still able to obtain my reliable Fletchtite glue and had virtually no problems bonding the Blazers to the aluminum. But then the same thing my wife complains about with her eye liner happened to me: They changed the formula to the “new and improved” Fletchtite Platinum.

I have been around and around with Bohnig and bless their hearts they really have tried to accommodate an old goat. They have sent me new glue and new Blazers…twice… and still I have the blasted things falling off once in a while. This last go ‘round I bought two dozen Easton XX78 Super Slam 2413s and had both of Bohnig’s adhesives (the Fletchtite Platinum and their cyno-acrylate) and new Blazers. I prepped the shafts using hot water and powdered bath scrubbing (Comet) powder as instructed in the Blazer packaging and did one dozen of one adhesive and the other dozen using the second adhesive.

This time, I thought I had success…until the weather changed. Now it’s cooled off (I practice throughout the year no matter how cold…OK, I won’t practice if it is below Zero) and I have Blazers shedding from both groups. It’s always the same in that the adhesive stays with the vanes and very little stays with the substrate. I have even tried using brake cleaner and other solvents to no avail.

I need suggestions on a good glue.
No, I take that back.
I want The Best glue.

I enjoy building new arrows but I detest repairing new arrows.

Help!

[Jingles]

When my wife was fletching arrows for a shop they always wiped them down with isopropyl alcohol just before gluing well long enough before so it air dried before throwing them in the fletching jigs

[Todd_ID]

I'm in the same boat as you.  26 years of fletching arrows; old stuff was good.  Still can't get the new stuff to stick for very long.  Tried it all, too.  At least the feather tape on the roll is simple, and it seems to last as long as anything else.  I don't have an answer.  I've tried the expensive denatured alcohol by the quart-full.  At least my Fobs stay on!  I may buy some of those shrinky-dink blazer and wrap combos; that has to be about as fool proof as it gets. 

HELP RADSAV!  Save us from ourselves!

[sakoshooter]

Two years ago is when I strted fletching my own arrows. Bought a Bohning Blazer jig and Platinum glue for Blazers. Called Bohning. Did just what they advised with no problems what so ever on carbon. Haven't fletched aluminum yet.
I'd check to make sure every thing is warm including the glue. Shafts, vanes, jig etc. Allow enough time for each fletch. I've had no problems with any of my arrows in any kind of weather other than when I Robin Hood them, LOL.

[erk444]

I use acetone to wipe my shafts and the base of my vanes while there in the clamp. I also never touch the part of the shaft where the vanes go after wiping it down. My friends and I have had good luck with a type of glue called "NVP". Used to get it at wholesale sports. Hope this helps?

[jburkett]

I have had similar problems with this glue and many others.  Prep work is key, I used acetone and it helps,  but I have had the best luck cresting my shafts.  The vanes stick no matter what, and if you bang one up just strip off the wrap and you have a clean bare shaft to start over with.  Not to mention  I can follow the arrow flight 10x better with the neon wrap, and they show blood a lot better .   I will hunt with crested/wrapped arrows every year from now on

[Jason]

I have been using Saunders NPV glue with great luck the last few years on my Axis shafts.
I also clean the shafts with acetone, if the shafts been fletched a few times before i'll hit it
with some fine sand paper to make sure all the previous glue is off the shaft.
http://www.bowhuntingstuff.com/product/1118-ARROW-MATE-GLUE/Saunders-Arrow-Mate-NPV-Arrow-Fletching-Cement.html   

[carpsniperg2]

Wrap your shaft and you won't have any problems

A good wrap and some goat tuff or goldtip glue gets the job done for me. I also use the feather tape on my trad arrows and put spots on the front and back of the feather to keep them on.

[DoubleJ]

Get the black bottle, not the blue.  $4 at wal-mart.  Fletches about 2 dozen arrows plus inserts.  Comes off easy with an arrow scraper and some iso. alcohol to get the residue off



Serious.  Save yourself some money.

[hughjorgan]

Get the black bottle, not the blue.  $4 at wal-mart.  Fletches about 2 dozen arrows plus inserts.  Comes off easy with an arrow scraper and some iso. alcohol to get the residue off



Serious.  Save yourself some money.

I just use the blue control gel, works great. I have also have used gorilla super glue with great success.

Had to much trouble with goat tuff and fletch tite and vanes not holding a bond.

The loctite blue control gel has worked flawless, not one vane has fallen off, easy to scrape off and refletch as well.

[lokidog]

I'm using the NVP on carbon shafts and find they stick better if I leave them overnight before shooting, I also put a drop on the fronts and backs of the vanes.  I used acetone but found isopropyl alcohol works just fine.  I had no luck with the "super" glues.

>>>I'm not using Bohning vanes though.

[elkoholic]

I lost a blazer 1/2 way between my bow and a nice 3pt buck (thankfully the arrow dove into the dirt) in the grayback unit Thanksgiving day using goat tuff... been using the stuff for a few years now and have only lost a few veins but this was the worst possible time...will I switch glue? NOPE....

[sakoshooter]

As Lokidog said, leave them over nite and better yet, 24hrs before shooting them.
Bohning says to NOT wipe Blazers with ANYTHING because they've got a bonding agent on them that reacts with their glue.

[JLS]

I've used the blue Loctite gel glue on Blazers without any issue whatsoever. 

[RadSav]

HELP RADSAV!  Save us from ourselves!

Oh no! Called out again   I will try not to screw this up.  Fighting through a migraine but I'll do my best

Let me start by expressing my contempt for fletching directly to carbon shafts.  And camo carbon shafts even more.  That is why you will notice that the vast majority of my pictures have arrows with Blazer Wraps on them.  Makes life much easier when working with carbon shafts.  Just make sure to account for the effect on FOC when choosing your point weight.

There are three ways glue bonds; electrostatically, mechanically and material cross linking.  When bonding directly to the shaft you will not have enough porous material to really create a mechanical bond.  And without a wrap the aluminum or carbon most certainly will not cross link with your fletching.  So electrostatic bonding is what we are most often looking for in a good fletch to shaft bond.  Without going into a bunch of hula scientific mumbo just realize a good bond is going to be one with many positive and negative ions and very little insulators between the two.  Thus the reason for choosing the right cleaning method.  Especially when dealing with a carbon shaft whose components tend to have many insulating factors that further restrict the effectiveness of polar orientation/bonding.

Vinyl or rubber based glues like Fletch-Tite, Platinum and NPV stay reasonably pliable after curing.  In my opinion this is an important feature when using arrows in a variety of weather conditions and temperatures.  It also makes these glues far more resistant to impact fracturing than cyanoacrylates.  The plasticizing element of these glues is usually MEK or Acetone giving them the ability to crosslink with most vinyl type arrow wraps and most fletching materials.  For this reason I always use a high grade of MEK or Lacquer Thinner as a cleaning agent on fletching and shafts.  (Most acetone available at hardware stores is not pure enough to be void of fillers and other ingredients and will leave a film.  So I stay away from Acetone)  If you want the absolute best cleaning agent for this type of glue get lacquer thinner from an automotive paint supplier.

When using this type of glue I always clean the base of the vane regardless of manufacturer.  The primer used by a few of the manufactures out there including Bohning is really targeted for automatic fletching jigs and fast acting glues.  They will actually become a barrier restricting the crosslink between glue, wraps and vanes.  I wipe them with my lacquer thinner until I see some color transfer onto the blue shop towels I use for cleaning.  At that point I know the primer has been completely removed and the surface has been softened and ready to optimize a crosslink between glue and vane.  I don't want to use a thinner on my already soft vinyl wraps so I clean those with extra hot water and a small amount of Simple Green.  All I'm trying to do here is simple degreasing and that's all.

Cyanoacrylate is basically an acrylic resin.  The rapid nature of set in this glue is rather inconsistent due to it's reaction to moisture.  One of the reasons an archer from the eastside might absolutely love the stuff and someone from the westside might absolutely hate the stuff.  The newer gel (fumed silica) formulations are much more stable as moisture does not accelerate set nearly as fast.  Acrylic is a strong material with long molecule chains that adhere well.  But, while it is a strong material it is also brittle and does not handle shear well.  It also does not expand and contract well making it susceptible to bonding failures when fletched in hot weather and used in late season cold weather.  It also loses shear strength in cold weather. Most of the cyanoacrylate glues available in the archery industry are manufactured in the same plant and have very similar attributes.  Not so is the case of Loc-Tite and Gorilla.  Loc-Tite's Ultra Gel and Gorilla Super-Glue variations include an impact modifier.  This modifier keeps the material much more pliable than standard cyanoacrylates.  Making these two glues more resistant to expansion/contraction issues and impact failure issues.  Not to the extent that traditional Fletch-Tite type glues do but much better than unmodified cyanoacrylate glues.

Acrylic and MEK/acetone do not like one another.  Because of this you must be very careful when using these solvents to clean arrow shafts that are fletched using the fast set glues.  A good rule to follow if cleaning shaft with MEK or Lacquer thinner is to let them dry over night before fletching with fast set glues.  Now while these glues increase and decrease set times rapidly with different water vapor levels water does not breakdown the molecular chain or effect their electrochemical/electrostatic properties.  So water based degreasers are often the best way to go when cleaning shafts.  My preferred method is to very lightly scuff the shafts with a green Scotch Brite pad and then clean with a 1:20 mixture of Simple Green.  Followed by two aggressive rinses of hot water and a wipe down with all white paper towels.  I then let them dry for a few hours before I'm ready to fletch.  Best vanes to use with Cyanoacrylate glues would be those with primered surfaces or factory prepped vanes such as those made by Bohning, AAE, NAP and Norway (Fusion).

My personal favorite glues:
Saunders NPV (all time favorite and used on all my "hunting" arrows)
Gorilla Impact-Tough Super-Glue (I use this glue quite often for target arrows and/or test arrows because of it's process time and simplicity to work with)

Two things to note:  Bohning vanes are treated with a primer for best adhesion with cyanoacrylate glues.  Which is a very nice feature and one of the things I really like about Bohning vanes.  However, over time this primer begins to decay and lose it's bond with the vane.  Plus there have been times when a batch of Bohning vane has not bonded well with the primer even when new.  So if you have a problem with your Bohning vanes coming off in flight or with just light impact inspect the area they were adhered carefully.  You can easily see if the failure was due to a loss of glue bond or a loss of the primer bond.  If it is a primer bond contact Bohning and request replacements.  If all arrows were fletched during that same time with the same batch of vanes strip them all and start over again with a different batch of product.

Also, neither type of fletching glue handles being in below freezing temperatures prior to application in the tube or bottle.  When possible I try to order my glues during summer months.  And when I forget a batch of glue in the RV or even think it may have reached a temperature below freezing I throw it out and get a new tube.  After experiencing a few failures with animals standing in front of me I no longer believe it is worth the risk when these products are so reasonable in price.


Hope that is what you were looking for Todd.  And sorry if my proof reading, grammar and punctuation was a little flawed.  I've been seeing double for the past 15 minutes.  Guess the Percocets are starting to take effect.