wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013

[wolfbait]

Someone asked me how do you know there were three wolf packs in 08? In 2003 there was a wolf pack of seven seen in Bridge cr, one of those wolves was collared and in 2007 there was a pack seen on Thompson Ridge and two of those wolves were collared. Then there was the show and tell collaring of the Lookout pack which had been reported to WDFW for several years and ignored. The new Lookout packs hang out was the Gold cr and libby cr. country or was that a different pack altogether?  There could have been more packs that we don't know about, every wolf reported in the Okanogan, WDFW always referred back to the lookout pack. 

In the last ten years our deer herds have dropped like a rock till we are where we are today, in a shocking state of practically no deer and many wolves.

[Special T]

To get even more off topic, why is it that wolves are considered to be endangered, yet bison are not? I feel bison should be listed as well, and a plan put in place to restore them to their historical numbers. At least they are good to eat, AND they will provide another source of food for the wolves!

Because the ESA is NOT about animals! Its about $ and control. NO other answer makes sense.

[JLS]

To get even more off topic, why is it that wolves are considered to be endangered, yet bison are not? I feel bison should be listed as well, and a plan put in place to restore them to their historical numbers. At least they are good to eat, AND they will provide another source of food for the wolves!

Because the ESA is NOT about animals! Its about $ and control. NO other answer makes sense.

Actually no.  It is because of the political clout of the stockgrowers in MT that bison are managed by the Department of Livestock.  Archaic brucellosis policy, threats of economic sanctions, and good old fashioned fear mongering will likely forever keep bison in their current "no man's land status".

[Special T]

the ESA is a weapon JLS. THAT was my point. Look at the history with salmon, spotted owls Sealions and even bison. NOTHING the ESA mages good sence it is just a form of control, and a way for people to make $$$... (Control & $ are somewhat interchangeable)

[bobcat]

A weapon? Come on, that's a little far fetched.   

[Special T]

I'm sorry bobcat you must either be trying to discredit me or you are completely ignorant of the facts. Have you not read ANY of the articles over the last 30 years about the spotted owl? Since you are a westsider  and hunter you must have at least a little knowledge on the subject.
Spotted owls were used by Eco groups to stop the logging on the OLY Pen. It was NOT about the owls it was about not cutting timber on NF land.

So far I've only heard you say that you don't like wolves either, and that anyone who thinks the WDFW or USFS have not put forth their best effort is a wack job conspiracy theorist.

Contrary to what those agencies may SAY they are going to do, they have to follow though on them.... That is how MANY people can lie without actually contradicting themselves. Excuses can be made as to why there is piss poor performance despite their "best" intentions.

[skywalker253]

I'm sorry bobcat you must either be trying to discredit me or you are completely ignorant of the facts. Have you not read ANY of the articles over the last 30 years about the spotted owl? Since you are a westsider  and hunter you must have at least a little knowledge on the subject.
Spotted owls were used by Eco groups to stop the logging on the OLY Pen. It was NOT about the owls it was about not cutting timber on NF land.

So far I've only heard you say that you don't like wolves either, and that anyone who thinks the WDFW or USFS have not put forth their best effort is a wack job conspiracy theorist.

Contrary to what those agencies may SAY they are going to do, they have to follow though on them.... That is how MANY people can lie without actually contradicting themselves. Excuses can be made as to why there is piss poor performance despite their "best" intentions.

Man! This guy is bitter and a little coo coo!

SpecialT address is...

1313 Mocking Bird Lane (its where the Munsters live)

Love the passion thou...

[skywalker253]

One of the problems is that the WDFW can make the numbers look however they want them. An example is the deer populations thru out the state.  Back in the 80's and 90's the state said the deer population was just the right in areas like the Entiat, Methow, Chiwawa. Now if you listen to the biologists the deer populations are once again just right even though they are not even close to what they used to be. The same thing has happened with the Saint Helens and the Clockum elk herds so if they want to say that the wolves are having no effect on the deer or elk populations they will adjust the numbers accordingly.

I agree with you. Years ago we had way more deer in Marengo. The game department claims there are more deer there than ever. I highly doubt their numbers. We use to see field after field full of deer. Now it is nothing put small groups and ones and twos here and there.

Correct me if I am wrong. I thought they WDFW told us there were too many elk in the St. Helens GMUs, so they increased the special permits to thin the herds. I beleive their goal was to reduce the herds to satisfy Weyco? Sombody chim in please. Hunt Phool....you are the EXPERT on here. Now lone us your EXPERTISE...Your being called upon-LOL

I'm no expert skywalker but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night .

Holiday Express is a dump. Try the Mariott next time. I heard they "Unlocked The Gates" to build it in the middle on your beloved winter feeding ground in the ENTIAT. Now thats funny!  

Just drive up Mud Creek RD and you will see they have domesticated your deer herd, and made them apart of the property. They also hired "Natives" to maintain the property, as long as they don't net the *censored* out of the Koi in the hotel ponds.

[Special T]

Skywalker thank you for proving my point.

[DaveBTS]

My Wolf Management Plan only costs $.50 per wolf.

[snowpack]

I've heard it is a weapon/tool that the eco-crusaders like to use.  There was a green warrior that wrote a piece about how it wasn't about saving the owl, the owl just happened to be the most convenient animal to apply the ESA to use.  The guy said if it hadn't been an owl, they would've found a different animal.  He said that the troops in the field for the green movement are for the most part genuine and love nature and want to protect it.  As he moved up he saw it turned more and more corporate and focused more on money and less on the environment.  When up near the top the leaders were basically indistinguishable from those in the industries they opposed.  His claim was that many of the groups that use the ESA eventually work with the Nature Conservancy and they are really a real estate corporation.  They lobby for laws to make land unusable (typically with ESA or wetlands laws).  Once the laws have enough bite the landowners can't profit and either sell or the bank forecloses/auctions.  Very little interest from potential buyers due to regulations regarding use, so Nature Conservancy and those like it pick up the land at little cost.  They get tax incentives while holding the land.  Eventually they get an approved sale to the government at a much higher price and the land is added to a park/refuge/etc.  The corporation makes a nice profit and the bottom level greenies get warm and fuzzies for saving mother earth.

[huntnphool]

Skywalker thank you for proving my point.

[Special T]

Just so you don't think i'm talking out my pie hole...
Here is one example of using the ESA as a weapon.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-fish-wildlife-and-parks-sued-over-trapping-in-lynx/article_3bb83122-9297-11e2-8e2e-0019bb2963f4.html

And I can't find the other article i read about a "new" subspecies of fisher that they want to ban trapping in ID to protect... i will post it later

[Curly]

I agree, SpecialT.  The environmentalists use the ESA to their advantage.  Funny that they pick and choose which species they want use as a tool to get what they want.

[pianoman9701]

Wasn't a large development stopped when the CA wood rat was listed on ESA? This happened like 15-20 years ago. The spotted owl is such an obvious example of people using the ESA to stop practices with which they disagree. Most of the timber industry in the Pacific NW was eliminated or changed with that listing. How could anyone look at this and not see the ESA is used by radical groups to forward their agendas?