UPDATE: Sheriffs sue over COLORADO gun laws

[bearpaw]

We all have a lot of anger and frustration over the attacks on the 2nd Amendment, I understand and share that anger and frustration. I completely support Magpul and the Outdoor Show for moving out of CO and encourage others to do the same. Hit the state of CO in the pocketbook. 

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

Currently I am thinking what if everyone starts boycotting WA for all the gun control schemes that Murray and Cantwell vote for that would affect everyone across the country. 

There are members of this forum that vote for Murray, Cantwell, and Obama. Should CO sportsmen pay the price when WA is just at fault on the national level?

[JLS]

So your answer is "nothing"  I see the same thing from the same people, they don't like the idea of a boycott when it could affect (or not) the little guy, but they have no idea themselves of what might help. Instead they keep crying that its not fair.
 Sounds like a closet liberal.

Does a quasi intelligent statement like this make you a closet rocket scientist?

[actionshooter]

So your answer is "nothing"  I see the same thing from the same people, they don't like the idea of a boycott when it could affect (or not) the little guy, but they have no idea themselves of what might help. Instead they keep crying that its not fair.
 Sounds like a closet liberal.

Does a quasi intelligent statement like this make you a closet rocket scientist?

Seriously, The question Bob has asked has been pointed out several times through the thread.
  Its all about money going to the state. The politicians will change position based on money. They went from a 10 round ban to a 15 round magazine overnight b/c Magpul threatened to leave, yes this was about the dollar.
 I want to know what his ideas are?  I see lots of disagreement but no suggestions.  I would love to see another way so I can keep gathering points.
   I agree its not fair to the guys who work in the outdoor industry and I don't like it either, but I can't give money to a state that has passed these laws.
 At the same time everyone who is against a boycott cheers Magpul for moving, yet it seems its OK that hundreds of people will lose their jobs. I'm positive those people did not vote for those who pushed the laws.
 Doesn't that seem a little hypocritical?

[pianoman9701]

We all have a lot of anger and frustration over the attacks on the 2nd Amendment, I understand and share that anger and frustration. I completely support Magpul and the Outdoor Show for moving out of CO and encourage others to do the same. Hit the state of CO in the pocketbook. 

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

Currently I am thinking what if everyone starts boycotting WA for all the gun control schemes that Murray and Cantwell vote for that would affect everyone across the country. 
There are members of this forum that vote for Murray, Cantwell, and Obama. Should CO sportsmen pay the price when WA is just at fault on the national level?

If this happened, maybe the voters of WA would realize how stupid their choice of candidates has been up until now. As it is, we're not exactly a hunter-friendly state.

[Heredoggydoggy]

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

To quote Gus Mcrae in Lonesome Dove--"You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw".  If the owners of the small businesses feel that strongly about the Constiution they'd move out too.  Only a mass exodus from the State will show the liberal politicians how wrong they were.  As long as the majority of voters buys into the "Go along to get along" BS, it will only get worse. 

[bearpaw]

We actually have some very good state legislators and US Representatives. It's our two US Senators who are always anti-gun, anti-constitution.

[pianoman9701]

We actually have some very good state legislators and US Representatives. It's our two US Senators who are always anti-gun, anti-constitution.

Yes, and it's the US Senate that's been writing the bills, spearheaded by Feinkenstein and supported by her close friends, Patty and Maria. I gotta tell you, Dale, I'm very tempted to roll up my tent and take it to MT or WY. The softies in this state have no idea of what could happen to their rights and don't care. West of the Cascades, there's no such thing as a government too big.

[JLS]

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

To quote Gus Mcrae in Lonesome Dove--"You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw".  If the owners of the small businesses feel that strongly about the Constiution they'd move out too.  Only a mass exodus from the State will show the liberal politicians how wrong they were.  As long as the majority of voters buys into the "Go along to get along" BS, it will only get worse. 

So under this logic, we punish anyone who chooses to stay and try to make a difference?  After all, it's better to tuck your tail and leave.

Kind of a stretch of logic in my opinion

[huntnphool]

We actually have some very good state legislators and US Representatives. It's our two US Senators who are always anti-gun, anti-constitution.

Yes, and it's the US Senate that's been writing the bills, spearheaded by Feinkenstein and supported by her close friends, Patty and Maria. I gotta tell you, Dale, I'm very tempted to roll up my tent and take it to MT or WY. The softies in this state have no idea of what could happen to their rights and don't care. West of the Cascades, there's no such thing as a government too big.

+1, we are researching the same thing.

[pianoman9701]

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

To quote Gus Mcrae in Lonesome Dove--"You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw".  If the owners of the small businesses feel that strongly about the Constiution they'd move out too.  Only a mass exodus from the State will show the liberal politicians how wrong they were.  As long as the majority of voters buys into the "Go along to get along" BS, it will only get worse. 

So under this logic, we punish anyone who chooses to stay and try to make a difference?  After all, it's better to tuck your tail and leave.
Kind of a stretch of logic in my opinion

Do you think there's a chance that by staying, I'll be able to convert the people on the wet side to conservatism? I've been here for 25 years. The stench of socialism is thick in the air. The liberal whiners who don't think but jump on the anti-gun bandwagon are pouring into our state from the south by carloads. I'm lucky to live in Clark Co., which is a small bastion of conservatism on the wet side, but going closer to the left with every election. I'm not tucking anything. I'm just considering the fact that we can't elect a conservative governor or senators to save our lives. Maybe I belong somewhere that more represents who I am and for what I give a damn.

[huntnphool]

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

To quote Gus Mcrae in Lonesome Dove--"You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw".  If the owners of the small businesses feel that strongly about the Constiution they'd move out too.  Only a mass exodus from the State will show the liberal politicians how wrong they were.  As long as the majority of voters buys into the "Go along to get along" BS, it will only get worse. 

So under this logic, we punish anyone who chooses to stay and try to make a difference?  After all, it's better to tuck your tail and leave.
Kind of a stretch of logic in my opinion

Do you think there's a chance that by staying, I'll be able to convert the people on the wet side to conservatism? I've been here for 25 years. The stench of socialism is thick in the air. The liberal whiners who don't think but jump on the anti-gun bandwagon are pouring into our state from the south by carloads. I'm lucky to live in Clark Co., which is a small bastion of conservatism on the wet side, but going closer to the left with every election. I'm not tucking anything. I'm just considering the fact that we can't elect a conservative governor or senators to save our lives. Maybe I belong somewhere that more represents who I am and for what I give a damn.

This is exactly what has happened to Colorado as well. I have relatives that have watched the same thing happen there, their business has seen a huge migration of workers from California.

[whacker1]

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

To quote Gus Mcrae in Lonesome Dove--"You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw".  If the owners of the small businesses feel that strongly about the Constiution they'd move out too.  Only a mass exodus from the State will show the liberal politicians how wrong they were.  As long as the majority of voters buys into the "Go along to get along" BS, it will only get worse. 

So under this logic, we punish anyone who chooses to stay and try to make a difference?  After all, it's better to tuck your tail and leave.
Kind of a stretch of logic in my opinion

Do you think there's a chance that by staying, I'll be able to convert the people on the wet side to conservatism? I've been here for 25 years. The stench of socialism is thick in the air. The liberal whiners who don't think but jump on the anti-gun bandwagon are pouring into our state from the south by carloads. I'm lucky to live in Clark Co., which is a small bastion of conservatism on the wet side, but going closer to the left with every election. I'm not tucking anything. I'm just considering the fact that we can't elect a conservative governor or senators to save our lives. Maybe I belong somewhere that more represents who I am and for what I give a damn.

I have said this many times and have to repeat it to myself to remain sain: Where does your vote mean the most?  For me, I live in the 3rd legislative district, which is mostly made up of the City of Spokane and the only liberal legislative district in Eastern Washington.  I have pondered moving to Idaho where my conservative vote means very little, because the large majority already thinks like I do.  Does it still mean something? yes.  Or do I stay where I am at, because my vote means very little, because it 65% democrat vote and I can't raise the bar with my one vote to get close enough to 50/50.  The only conclusion is that your vote means the most and has the most impact in a swing district.  For Spokane that is District 6 typically that is close to 50/50.  So my vote every election will help a conservative candidate.

Senator Don Benton in Clark County was  testament to the swing district in this last election, winning his state senate race by less than 100 votes.  So pianoman, while the outcome in Washington may not be what you want, your vote did make a different for Don Benton.

[pianoman9701]

But I am struggling to see the wisdom in turning on our friends who are stuck living in CO, I do think there have been some pretty valid points brought up about hurting the small businesses that support the 2nd Amendment.

To quote Gus Mcrae in Lonesome Dove--"You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw".  If the owners of the small businesses feel that strongly about the Constiution they'd move out too.  Only a mass exodus from the State will show the liberal politicians how wrong they were.  As long as the majority of voters buys into the "Go along to get along" BS, it will only get worse. 

So under this logic, we punish anyone who chooses to stay and try to make a difference?  After all, it's better to tuck your tail and leave.
Kind of a stretch of logic in my opinion

Do you think there's a chance that by staying, I'll be able to convert the people on the wet side to conservatism? I've been here for 25 years. The stench of socialism is thick in the air. The liberal whiners who don't think but jump on the anti-gun bandwagon are pouring into our state from the south by carloads. I'm lucky to live in Clark Co., which is a small bastion of conservatism on the wet side, but going closer to the left with every election. I'm not tucking anything. I'm just considering the fact that we can't elect a conservative governor or senators to save our lives. Maybe I belong somewhere that more represents who I am and for what I give a damn.

I have said this many times and have to repeat it to myself to remain sain: Where does your vote mean the most?  For me, I live in the 3rd legislative district, which is mostly made up of the City of Spokane and the only liberal legislative district in Eastern Washington.  I have pondered moving to Idaho where my conservative vote means very little, because the large majority already thinks like I do.  Does it still mean something? yes.  Or do I stay where I am at, because my vote means very little, because it 65% democrat vote and I can't raise the bar with my one vote to get close enough to 50/50.  The only conclusion is that your vote means the most and has the most impact in a swing district.  For Spokane that is District 6 typically that is close to 50/50.  So my vote every election will help a conservative candidate.

Senator Don Benton in Clark County was  testament to the swing district in this last election, winning his state senate race by less than 100 votes.  So pianoman, while the outcome in Washington may not be what you want, your vote did make a different for Don Benton.

My vote absolutely made a difference for Don Benton's race (and Jaime Herrera), and did absolutely nothing for US Senate or governor. Hopefully, Benton will keep winning but I don't see it happening. The governor's mansion will never see a Republican or Libertarian again, and our US Senate seats are also lost. I want to live somewhere where it's not a constant battle to reign in the government or retain my rights. I want to live somewhere where common sense exists and when you walk down the street with an open carry, someone is more likely to ask "what model is that?", than to say, "why do you need that? Are you some kind of gun nut?".

[whacker1]

I understand, but wanted to put it in perspective for others.  Plus I need you guys to stay if I ever hope to have a chance at electing a republican governor, senator, or any of the other state officials.

[Dave Workman]

I get it. Because Actionshooter and Dave tell me to do something, I should do it even if I don't believe it will have any positive effect.

Carry on.

I don't believe anybody is telling anyone else what to do here. It's obvious nobody would listen 
I reported the situation and explained it is a cause and effect situation. Tom Gresham is no lightweight in the outdoors, and neither is Michael Bane. Everyone here appears to have their own course.

As for the boycott idea...it boils down to this. Colorado has adopted some draconian gun laws.

Washington did not and I can claim to have had a hand in that.

Colorado — unlike Washington — rakes in a ton of loot annually from non-resident hunters. Their tax revenue and ripple effect economic benefit is in the tens if not hundreds of millions.  If that suddenly dries up because gun owning hunters decide to go elsewhere, the state is going to notice that fast.

It would be like Washington suddenly losing revenue from, say, whale watchers or Mount Rainier / Oly National Park visitors staying home because the state allowed whale hunting or did something else that made the environmental community go berserk. It amounts to a ton of lost revenue that the state would notice and that could compel the legislature to do an about face.

Ditto Colorado. 

Yes, there is no denying that this is going to hurt some small business people, and maybe big business people too, who depend on hunters and anglers.  I have no idea how they voted in the last election, but as Bearpaw has noted, some folks here probably voted for Obama, Murray and Cantwell...and other gun grabbers. 

That's their right, but be prepared to accept the consequences.

In this thread, I've gone from being someone who "sucks on the gov't teet" to someone who ought to have his small business boycotted because, when you get right down to it, because I don't agree with what a couple of people are saying. Thats really what this is all about. 

It's an awful mess and a lot of people will be hurt who didn't go along with any of this. Sportsmen and women, the Parks and Wildlife agency, all the motels, hotels, gas stations, fast food places, sporting goods stores, butcher shops, guides and outfitters...yeah, this is going to hurt.

So, the question still stands and I asked first: 

What other plan / option is there? 

We can't take a mob to Colorado and hang the rats. Since we don't vote in Colorado we can't vote them out of office or run against them.

We can shrug and say "there's nothing we can do about it" and continue spending money in Colorado, and at the end of the day, the people who shoved these laws through will stand up and shout, "See, we TOLD you this wouldn't have any detrimental impact!"  And they would be right and it would embolden the gang from Seattle to troop back to Olympia and try again.

Gresham's idea is his reaction and others appear to be following his lead.
Magpul is pulling its business out
Michael Bane and Outdoor Channel are pulling out.

I have not seen a single other idea expressed here, only people who say boycotting is not a good one. So, you have a better idea?  Let's hear it. I'm sure Gresham would be delighted to hear it, too. He's watching this thread.



I will add this bit of history about Boycotts of Colorado, from the pages of the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/21/opinion/the-case-for-the-colorado-boycott.html

"Admittedly, an economic boycott is not a precision weapon. Targeting Colorado's $5 billion tourist industry stands to hurt not just the unenlightened, but also the progressive towns of Denver, Aspen, and Boulder, where most voters opposed the anti-gay amendment.

But that is no reason to let Colorado off the hook. A successful boycott can help energize the most progressive Coloradans to overturn their new law. And it would send a potent warning to other states that may soon consider similar measures."