Free: Contests & Raffles.
If a parent shoots a man for raping his daughter, do we call him a murderer or a hero? If a man shoots another man for molesting his kids, do we call him a low life killer or a man with convictions and integrity. Then why do some on here call a man that kills a wolf a poacher? When he is trying to protect his livestock or save the deer or elk herd from getting wiped out, is he evil? This once was called wildlife management when the game agencies tried to keep a balance and allow hunters as their number one tool to keep the populations balanced. If you are a man that would just stand and watch someone rape your daughter and smile and just say "thats O.K., because its just natural" then you can surely be qualified to call someone that kills a wolf a poacher.
You nailed it KFH, in Idaho the locals worked together to eliminate wolves. It was a community effort in many areas to reduce the wolf population and it was essentially supported by the governor with his decree that IDFG could not pass wolf poaching info to the feds. The reason there is a paid trapper in the Frank right now is because there are no locals living in the Frank and no year around hunting pressure on wolves. Idahohntr will never admit it, but as an elk hunter in Idaho he is most definitely a beneficiary of state sponsored SSS.
I just hope usfw and wdfw persons involved in this lunacy are held accountable and prosecuted to the man/woman to the fullest extent.We will need to be diligent about accountability. BY who, all there bosses love the work they did for the wolves.
Quote from: bearpaw on January 28, 2014, 11:24:38 PMYou nailed it KFH, in Idaho the locals worked together to eliminate wolves. It was a community effort in many areas to reduce the wolf population and it was essentially supported by the governor with his decree that IDFG could not pass wolf poaching info to the feds. The reason there is a paid trapper in the Frank right now is because there are no locals living in the Frank and no year around hunting pressure on wolves. Idahohntr will never admit it, but as an elk hunter in Idaho he is most definitely a beneficiary of state sponsored SSS. So, again, if I am a beneficiary of "state sponsored SSS" (which is a joke btw), then you must be back to admitting that there is good elk hunting in most of Idaho? You flip-flop more than John Kerry so its hard for me to keep track of what your position is on any given hour. Again, no "state sponsored SSS" as you call it had any real effect on wolf numbers...they grew exponentially until about 2010 and then leveled off and have decreased slightly. And finally, it is beyond laughable that you and KF think you have a frickin clue about my elk hunting in Idaho...or the last several generations of my family that have elk hunted in Idaho...and as I pointed out earlier, if you think you are getting reliable information from small communities in rural Idaho as a NON-RESIDENT GUIDE...
QuoteYou nailed it KFH, in Idaho the locals worked together to eliminate wolves. It was a community effort in many areas to reduce the wolf population and it was essentially supported by the governor with his decree that IDFG could not pass wolf poaching info to the feds. The reason there is a paid trapper in the Frank right now is because there are no locals living in the Frank and no year around hunting pressure on wolves. Idahohntr will never admit it, but as an elk hunter in Idaho he is most definitely a beneficiary of state sponsored SSS. Honestly, this whole wolf introduction time period has not been healthy for modern wildlife management in too many ways to list, but the truth is when things get to a certain point the people will react in despair. That's what happened in Idaho, especially after Judge Malloy shut down wolf hunting. It might even be a good thing that Malloy happened, that single act by Malloy really opened a lot of peoples eyes to the anti-hunting corruption in wildlife management. Too bad there pulling out that trapper http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/435877/85b41d5ddd/1454001502/4271a9384b/
You nailed it KFH, in Idaho the locals worked together to eliminate wolves. It was a community effort in many areas to reduce the wolf population and it was essentially supported by the governor with his decree that IDFG could not pass wolf poaching info to the feds. The reason there is a paid trapper in the Frank right now is because there are no locals living in the Frank and no year around hunting pressure on wolves. Idahohntr will never admit it, but as an elk hunter in Idaho he is most definitely a beneficiary of state sponsored SSS. Honestly, this whole wolf introduction time period has not been healthy for modern wildlife management in too many ways to list, but the truth is when things get to a certain point the people will react in despair. That's what happened in Idaho, especially after Judge Malloy shut down wolf hunting. It might even be a good thing that Malloy happened, that single act by Malloy really opened a lot of peoples eyes to the anti-hunting corruption in wildlife management.
idahohntr- Trying to follow along a bit here and I have an idea of the experience and age of some of the other posters. I am curious of your age and credentials to speak with authority on this subject. For posterity, not to be rude. Thanks.
Go on siding with the enviro whackos and their philosophies. I'll have far more friends in Idaho as a non-res outfitter who supports local economies and understands local problems than you ever will as an out-of-state wolf lover. I wonder how popular that is?
The ecology of fear: Elk responses to wolves in Yellowstone are not what we thoughthttp://www.westernconfluence.org/?p=131
But wolves hunt all over the landscape, continually moving from place to place. And they often pursue elk without killing them. According to data from the Yellowstone Wolf Project, as many as 80 percent of elk that are pursued and attacked by wolves escape alive. “Elk can’t know where wolves are, so they don’t have this preemptive behavior of avoiding areas where wolves are going to attack them,” Kauffman said. “Wolves are sort of everywhere, so for an elk they are nowhere.”
Elk may avoid a valley or riparian area for a few days while wolves are present, but as soon as the wolves move elsewhere, the elk return. Over the course of a winter, elk don’t avoid certain areas consistently enough for reduced browsing to translate to higher growth rates of aspen. In fact, research by Scott Creel and David Christianson in Yellowstone published in 2009 found that “elk consumed significantly more willow when wolves were present … contrary to the behaviorally mediated trophic cascade hypothesis.” They suggest this may be a result of elk seeking cover in the willows rather than staying out in the open grasslands when wolves are around. Additionally, there is a key difference, according to Kauffman, between how elk respond to wolves and how grasshoppers respond to spiders. Elk browse aspen in winter, when they live off dwindling fat reserves, progressively losing weight as the months go by. “It’s well-supported in the literature that animals that are near death by starvation basically ignore predation completely,” Kauffman explained. “If you are in really poor condition it’s worth the risk to feed in a risky place because you have to feed or you will die.”
“The trick is trying to understand the feedbacks of the system,” he said. His research has examined how factors such as shifting winter snowpack, increasing aridity in Yellowstone, and a dramatically lengthened growing season since the time of wolf reintroduction can all influence elk behavior and shrub recovery. He cautions against any ideas that simplify the system, including strong adherence to either a top-down or bottom-up interpretation of ecosystem structure.
QuoteBut wolves hunt all over the landscape, continually moving from place to place. And they often pursue elk without killing them. According to data from the Yellowstone Wolf Project, as many as 80 percent of elk that are pursued and attacked by wolves escape alive. “Elk can’t know where wolves are, so they don’t have this preemptive behavior of avoiding areas where wolves are going to attack them,” Kauffman said. “Wolves are sort of everywhere, so for an elk they are nowhere.”Wouldn't this tend to disprove the thought that elk completely leave areas because of wolves?I wouldn't say that elk completely leave the area, most are eaten and stay in the area in the form of wolf feces. QuoteElk may avoid a valley or riparian area for a few days while wolves are present, but as soon as the wolves move elsewhere, the elk return. Over the course of a winter, elk don’t avoid certain areas consistently enough for reduced browsing to translate to higher growth rates of aspen. In fact, research by Scott Creel and David Christianson in Yellowstone published in 2009 found that “elk consumed significantly more willow when wolves were present … contrary to the behaviorally mediated trophic cascade hypothesis.” They suggest this may be a result of elk seeking cover in the willows rather than staying out in the open grasslands when wolves are around. Additionally, there is a key difference, according to Kauffman, between how elk respond to wolves and how grasshoppers respond to spiders. Elk browse aspen in winter, when they live off dwindling fat reserves, progressively losing weight as the months go by. “It’s well-supported in the literature that animals that are near death by starvation basically ignore predation completely,” Kauffman explained. “If you are in really poor condition it’s worth the risk to feed in a risky place because you have to feed or you will die.”Elk don't completely leave areas because of wolves. If there is good habitat, they will stay there. This quote directly supports that. No doubt that good habitat will support elk and that a small population of elk that the wolves are unable to find and kill will remain in an area. Certainly elk hunting can be harder for outfitters and private camps when the elk aren't in the same meadow every day. However, my experiences lead me to believe they don't abandon the area, they just move around in the same way they do when they are overpressured by humans.Not sure why you singled out outfitters and private camps. When there are fewer elk the hunting is tougher for everyone, except maybe for you and Idahohntr who both seem to claim wolves haven't affected hunting much.
