Alberta wolf bounties

[bearpaw]

http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2014/02/AlbertaWolfBounties.htm

Alberta wolf bounties
 
by Cat Urbigkit, Pinedale Online! February 13, 2014
 
Conservationists are calling for a halt to the wolf bounty system used in Alberta – which pays up to $500 per wolf killed in the province. Last spring, bounties were paid on more than 600 wolves killed in Alberta.
 
Wildlife biologists say that instead of a bounty system, wildlife managers should establish systems utilizing predator control officers to target wolves that prey on livestock, as is done in Wyoming.
 
To read more, check the link below.
 http://globalnews.ca/news/1142366/scientists-criticize-alberta-wolf-bounties/

Gordon Poirier of the Alberta Fish and Game Association said he’s aware of the skepticism over bounty programs, but said the combined take of hunters and trappers in the province don’t begin to control burgeoning wolf numbers.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

[Bean Counter]

$500 per animal! 

I wonder if someone could make a full time job out of that!?

[Skyvalhunter]

 
Wildlife biologists say that instead of a bounty system, wildlife managers should establish systems utilizing predator control officers to target wolves that prey on livestock, as is done in Wyoming.

Sounds like the tree hugging biologists we have here in Wa.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

No kidding like you didn't know that was going to happen

[steen]

Seems to me that is the most economical way to do it ($500.00 per wolf).  You are not paying someone for hours of time, government wages but instead for the end result! The hunter gets his wolf and the gov't gets a wolf gone.

[pianoman9701]

 
Wildlife biologists say that instead of a bounty system, wildlife managers should establish systems utilizing predator control officers to target wolves that prey on livestock, as is done in Wyoming.

Sounds like the tree hugging biologists we have here in Wa.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

No kidding like you didn't know that was going to happen

Didn't you know? Wolves will bring back balance to nature. We'll soon have a post which says so, I have little doubt.

[pd]

Gordon Poirier of the Alberta Fish and Game Association said he’s aware of the skepticism over bounty programs, but said the combined take of hunters and trappers in the province don’t begin to control burgeoning wolf numbers.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

Dale, the more that I think about wolves, the more I am inclined to believe that this will all work out well in the end.  Call me an optimist (well, call me anything that you like  ), the evidence will eventually become so overwhelming that even the deluded will someday awaken from their stupor.

I might be stretching the analogy a bit, but the introduction of Canadian grey wolves into the wilds of Washington by those harboring fantasies from a Disney movie ("Oh, wouldn't it be so nice to have all the wild animals living in harmony together...") reminds me of the fantasies held by the Drys at the start of Prohibition ("If we just ban alcohol, then all of our problems with poverty, family strife, vagrancy, and sloth will just disappear...").

At some point, even those who deeply yearn for a utopian outcome will come to the realization that nature does not operate according to their desires.  The gentleman from AB Fish & Game makes the point that unrestricted growth of the wolf population can generate its own momentum, which eventually leads to chaos.  Even here in WA the adult population will eventually come to a similar conclusion.

In the meantime, bang away.

[bearpaw]

Gordon Poirier of the Alberta Fish and Game Association said he’s aware of the skepticism over bounty programs, but said the combined take of hunters and trappers in the province don’t begin to control burgeoning wolf numbers.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

Dale, the more that I think about wolves, the more I am inclined to believe that this will all work out well in the end.  Call me an optimist (well, call me anything that you like  ), the evidence will eventually become so overwhelming that even the deluded will someday awaken from their stupor.

I might be stretching the analogy a bit, but the introduction of Canadian grey wolves into the wilds of Washington by those harboring fantasies from a Disney movie ("Oh, wouldn't it be so nice to have all the wild animals living in harmony together...") reminds me of the fantasies held by the Drys at the start of Prohibition ("If we just ban alcohol, then all of our problems with poverty, family strife, vagrancy, and sloth will just disappear...").

At some point, even those who deeply yearn for a utopian outcome will come to the realization that nature does not operate according to their desires.  The gentleman from AB Fish & Game makes the point that unrestricted growth of the wolf population can generate its own momentum, which eventually leads to chaos.  Even here in WA the adult population will eventually come to a similar conclusion.

In the meantime, bang away.

  I'm an optimist too and I agree, in the long run people will learn just as they have before.

[pianoman9701]

Gordon Poirier of the Alberta Fish and Game Association said he’s aware of the skepticism over bounty programs, but said the combined take of hunters and trappers in the province don’t begin to control burgeoning wolf numbers.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

Dale, the more that I think about wolves, the more I am inclined to believe that this will all work out well in the end.  Call me an optimist (well, call me anything that you like  ), the evidence will eventually become so overwhelming that even the deluded will someday awaken from their stupor.

I might be stretching the analogy a bit, but the introduction of Canadian grey wolves into the wilds of Washington by those harboring fantasies from a Disney movie ("Oh, wouldn't it be so nice to have all the wild animals living in harmony together...") reminds me of the fantasies held by the Drys at the start of Prohibition ("If we just ban alcohol, then all of our problems with poverty, family strife, vagrancy, and sloth will just disappear...").

At some point, even those who deeply yearn for a utopian outcome will come to the realization that nature does not operate according to their desires.  The gentleman from AB Fish & Game makes the point that unrestricted growth of the wolf population can generate its own momentum, which eventually leads to chaos.  Even here in WA the adult population will eventually come to a similar conclusion.

In the meantime, bang away.

  I'm an optimist too and I agree, in the long run people will learn just as they have before.

I don't think they will. The majority live in the city and will never be adversely affected by wolves. They don't understand that their McD's hamburgers come from cattle. They think they come from the freezer. They don't understand "why people move to the country if they hate wildlife", and on and on. It's going to take an awful lot to convince the majority of a problem and by then, it'll so far gone it's not funny.

[KFhunter]

People that live in rural areas will be law breakers at that point P-man, they'll poison everything including birds of prey with loafs of meat/blood blended with strychnine laced gopher bait.


http://www.solutionsstores.com/Gopher_Bait_50_p/gopher-bait-50.htm
It'll turn everyone into little versions of breaking bad, cooking this stuff up in their garages     

[wolfbait]

Gordon Poirier of the Alberta Fish and Game Association said he’s aware of the skepticism over bounty programs, but said the combined take of hunters and trappers in the province don’t begin to control burgeoning wolf numbers.

“The wolf population is almost out of control,” he said.

Dale, the more that I think about wolves, the more I am inclined to believe that this will all work out well in the end.  Call me an optimist (well, call me anything that you like  ), the evidence will eventually become so overwhelming that even the deluded will someday awaken from their stupor.

I might be stretching the analogy a bit, but the introduction of Canadian grey wolves into the wilds of Washington by those harboring fantasies from a Disney movie ("Oh, wouldn't it be so nice to have all the wild animals living in harmony together...") reminds me of the fantasies held by the Drys at the start of Prohibition ("If we just ban alcohol, then all of our problems with poverty, family strife, vagrancy, and sloth will just disappear...").

At some point, even those who deeply yearn for a utopian outcome will come to the realization that nature does not operate according to their desires.  The gentleman from AB Fish & Game makes the point that unrestricted growth of the wolf population can generate its own momentum, which eventually leads to chaos.  Even here in WA the adult population will eventually come to a similar conclusion.

In the meantime, bang away.

  I'm an optimist too and I agree, in the long run people will learn just as they have before.

I don't think they will. The majority live in the city and will never be adversely affected by wolves. They don't understand that their McD's hamburgers come from cattle. They think they come from the freezer. They don't understand "why people move to the country if they hate wildlife", and on and on. It's going to take an awful lot to convince the majority of a problem and by then, it'll so far gone it's not funny.

The USFWS introduced wolves into the hardest states first, meaning the state that would not allow wolves if the truth would have been known. That being said with 18 years of proven lies For the introduction and after the introduction, where are we today?

I'm sure the truth will be known by many before the wolves are finished, but what will states with wolves have left? And who will be held accountable? Not a One.

[wolfbait]

People who are not affected by wolves, and or believe the propganda by the pro-wolfers rule the voting class. The only true wolf management will come from people who SS, which is right up there with very little management.  Look at the cougar problem many in WA are having now, and WDFW's response. Instead of management that would improve hunting etc. they promote what is seen on TV by the BBC or Walt-dizzy Then we have DoW who are in the fight for suing and begging money from those who are clueless,  Constipated NW who partner up with WDFW, and spread the same lies that the USFWS started out with. All of which have been proven to be lies.

There will not be any true management of wolves ever in WA, many of you need to quit dreaming. Or maybe you should just calm down and wait for delisting.

[hunter399]

There will not be any true management of wolves ever in WA, many of you need to quit dreaming. Or maybe you should just calm down and wait for delisting.

I agree with that when delisting comes it will be up to us as hunter/farmer/rancher/trapper/ect. to take some of that management problems on.Look at the way coyote hunting has taken off the past couple years.Maybe someday there be no limit on wolves in washington then it will be game on.

[AspenBud]

There will not be any true management of wolves ever in WA, many of you need to quit dreaming. Or maybe you should just calm down and wait for delisting.

I agree with that when delisting comes it will be up to us as hunter/farmer/rancher/trapper/ect. to take some of that management problems on.Look at the way coyote hunting has taken off the past couple years.Maybe someday there be no limit on wolves in washington then it will be game on.

If that happens you probably won't have year round coyote hunting anymore. One will likely replace the other.

[pianoman9701]

There will not be any true management of wolves ever in WA, many of you need to quit dreaming. Or maybe you should just calm down and wait for delisting.

I agree with that when delisting comes it will be up to us as hunter/farmer/rancher/trapper/ect. to take some of that management problems on.Look at the way coyote hunting has taken off the past couple years.Maybe someday there be no limit on wolves in washington then it will be game on.

If that happens you probably won't have year round coyote hunting anymore. One will likely replace the other.

That'll be just fine. I wish we could replace those seasons today.

[hunter399]

I think wolves will be a permit draw just like moose,spring bear,ect.WDFW has to make there money.And the tag counld be whatever they say.It might 100.00 dollors a tag if u get drawed.Coyotes will stay the same as far as limit.There just too smart,they been traped,hunted without limits for years a still thirve today.Its kinda a proven fact.

[wolfbait]

I think wolves will be a permit draw just like moose,spring bear,ect.WDFW has to make there money.And the tag counld be whatever they say.It might 100.00 dollors a tag if u get drawed.Coyotes will stay the same as far as limit.There just too smart,they been traped,hunted without limits for years a still thirve today.Its kinda a proven fact.

Wolves have already had a major impact in other states where they were released under the public eye.
 Too much info has been released as to the impact on wildlife and livestock, plus the danger of wolves and the diseases they spread, which is the main reason the USFWS and state game agencies released wolves on the sly in other states, AND then ignore reports and refuse to confirm unless force to do so.

Look at WDFW and their fake wolf plan, pretending that the lookout pack was the first wolf pack in 70 years, when in 1992 they had confirmed six wolf packs in the Cascades.  Kind of like obamacare, at some point in time it will fold, but not before it causes untold damages.

[hunter399]

Im just telling you that when delisting comes,WDFW will want to make as much money as they can from wolf hunters.I do agree with you on the impact other states have had.I agree that there management is a fake wolf plan.First part of my quote was about wolves,The other part was about coyotes.

[wolfbait]

I don't think WDFW will have enough time to make any money on the wolves as the impacts will be great in a short amount of time. After all they have lied from the start, and continue to down play the amount of wolves, their lies can only go on for so long.

[wolfbait]

Those who argue for wolves or down play the impacts, pushing for more habitat, might find out they are a bit late. They can blame the USFWS and WDFW for filling WA with wolves too soon.

[hunter399]

That is true,but if they lose money though deer and elk tags ,they will wanna make it up somewhere,and i think it might be wolf tags.That the impacts your thinking of is gonna drive the price of a wolf tag way up it coulnd be any amount up 1000 dollors a tag u never know.

[hunter399]

Im not gonna pay some huge amount .But there will be people that will.I think the price of a moose tag is crazy,but if i was lucky enough to draw it ,i woulnd pay it just for the meat and the chance.

[wolfbait]

That is true,but if they lose money though deer and elk tags ,they will wanna make it up somewhere,and i think it might be wolf tags.That the impacts your thinking of is gonna drive the price of a wolf tag way up it coulnd be any amount up 1000 dollors a tag u never know.

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

[wolfbait]

Has anyone ever wondered why all of the wolf packs confirmed always turn up in cattle country?  Release and Finally Discover, but only after WDFW has no other choice!

[hunter399]

They will never stop hunting on private land,have u ever seen farmer hunting regs whatever you see while on the tracktor is fair game.Closeing public land wont stop most of us thats the peoples land .Most of the gates ,ditches,big holes in the roads dont slow people down now.And thats mostly firewood hunters.Very hard to stop someone from walking onto public land they can barely enforce the rules they have now.

[fair-chase]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

[wolfbait]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

You got it right, WDFW have been buying up private property.

[wolfbait]

They will never stop hunting on private land,have u ever seen farmer hunting regs whatever you see while on the tracktor is fair game.Closeing public land wont stop most of us thats the peoples land .Most of the gates ,ditches,big holes in the roads dont slow people down now.And thats mostly firewood hunters.Very hard to stop someone from walking onto public land they can barely enforce the rules they have now.

You are right they can't stop hunters from hunting on private land, but wolves and cougars can eliminate everything you would want to hunt, except maybe rattlesnakes. as far as wood cutting the USFS is already making new rules

[BOWHUNTER45]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

You got it right, WDFW have been buying up private property.

Tinfoil antenna  Noe that's one I never heard before ...lmao 

[AspenBud]

Has anyone ever wondered why all of the wolf packs confirmed always turn up in cattle country? 

Because it's closer to Idaho (where they have many wolves) than the west side and full of deer, elk, and tasty cows.     

You could honestly write that question with a straight race?

[AspenBud]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

 

[wolfbait]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

 

THE WILDLANDS PROJECT  http://nwri.org/the-wildlands-project/

[JLS]

Has anyone ever wondered why all of the wolf packs confirmed always turn up in cattle country? 

Because it's closer to Idaho (where they have many wolves) than the west side and full of deer, elk, and tasty cows.     

You could honestly write that question with a straight race?

Maybe they don't like apples and grapes?

[AspenBud]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

 

THE WILDLANDS PROJECT  http://nwri.org/the-wildlands-project/

Would you prefer Ted Turner?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/11/28/ted-turner-massive-land-purchases-generate-suspicion/

$12,000.00 elk hunts, that sounds affordable.

Everyone has a price and there are a lot of wealthy people out there looking to acquire cheap ranch land for themselves or to subdivide.

I'll take my chances on public land, at least I have some say in what happens to it when I vote.

[idahohuntr]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

    Yes, you definitely need to adjust your tinfoil antenna...you only have it tuned to "crazy" and it needs to be tuned to "bat$*** crazy"   

[AspenBud]

They will never stop hunting on private land,have u ever seen farmer hunting regs whatever you see while on the tracktor is fair game.Closeing public land wont stop most of us thats the peoples land .Most of the gates ,ditches,big holes in the roads dont slow people down now.And thats mostly firewood hunters.Very hard to stop someone from walking onto public land they can barely enforce the rules they have now.

You are right they can't stop hunters from hunting on private land, but wolves and cougars can eliminate everything you would want to hunt, except maybe rattlesnakes. as far as wood cutting the USFS is already making new rules

That makes for good conspiracy theory, but I suspect the reality was/is a little different and more complicated...

Take this old article from 2003...

"The previous year landowner Steve Sian had tried, allowing dozens of local hunters onto his property. But the corn was so tall, and most of the elk came out only at night, that only four animals were shot. Even more frustrating, says Newell, was that nearby ranches in the Pine Ridge hills allowed either no or very little public hunting. That created elk refuges, where the animals were safe during the hunting season, only to head back to Sian’s afterwards. Finally, over a two-week period in late summer 2002, FWP was forced to use special elk kill permits to shoot a total of 15 elk on Sian’s and a neighbor’s property.“ At that point, we’d exhausted every other option,” says Newell.

According to Sian, the FWP sharpshooters saved his financial skin. “I was losing about 15 percent of my crop each year,” he says, estimating the loss at $4,000 to $8,000 annually. “If they hadn’t taken out those elk, I don’t know what I would have done.”

The culling operation was conducted legally and as safely as possible, and the meat was donated to local food-sharing agencies, but not everyone was pleased by the elk removal effort. Adjacent landowners criticized the agency for killing the bulls, and local hunters complained they should have been given more shooting opportunities.“ It wasn’t,” says Newell, “what you’d call an ideal situation.”

Killing elk with sharpshooters is not how FWP wants to manage elk. Ideally, the department uses public hunting to keep elk numbers down where necessary. Yet, as happened in the Pine Ridge area and increasingly in other parts of Montana, wildlife managers are forced to find new ways to control the large ungulates. As elk numbers have risen beyond department goals in more than half the state’s elk management units, tolerance by many landowners for elk depredation is declining. Compounding the problem are landowners who restrict hunting access.

“When landowners don’t allow public hunting, or limit it to such an extent that we can’t get an adequate harvest,” says Pat Flowers, FWP southwestern region supervisor, “it becomes almost impossible to keep herds at acceptable levels.”"


...

"One factor leading to more elk damage complaints has been a recent string of mild winters. It takes snow to move elk from high-country summer range down to foothills and valley bottoms where hunters can get to the wary animals. Even though FWP has increased the number of antlerless permits in many areas, the weather hasn’t cooperated to produce an increased harvest.

Another factor is the growing number of rural subdivisions. Closed to hunting, the new housing developments and ranchettes create elk refuges. They also fragment habitat. The problem is expected to worsen as ranchers succumb to lucrative offers from developers. John Crumley, a long-time Madison Valley rancher, says he’s alarmed at how many of his neighbors have sold land to developers. “I’d look out at pasture my family used to lease and think, ‘They wouldn’t build there,’” he says, “and again and again I’m proven wrong.”"

Read more here:
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2003/elkdepredation.htm

[AspenBud]

So in short, blame your fellow land owner.

[wolfbait]

Quite a push-back for something you claim is false, didn't expect all of you to jump on it. You sound like WDFW when someone brings up the fact that WDFW released wolves in WA. 

[idahohuntr]

Quite a push-back for something you claim is false, didn't expect all of you to jump on it. You sound like WDFW when someone brings up the fact false rumor that WDFW released wolves in WA.

Fixed it for ya

[hunter399]

Does anyone on here know how much a wolf tag in idaho costs.

[JLS]

You have to buy a hunting license, which I think is around $120, and then your wolf tag is around $30.

In Montana you can buy the wolf tag for $50, nothing else needed.

[hunter399]

Thanks for posting just wanted to know.Not that bad though.

[Northway]

Quite a push-back for something you claim is false, didn't expect all of you to jump on it. You sound like WDFW when someone brings up the fact that WDFW released wolves in WA.

Wolfbait, I think if the WDFW was exposed for being a part of all these conspiracies you claim, you'd just turn around and say that they were only exposed as part of a strategy for an even greater and more elaborate conspiracy that we are all about to fall victim to. 

I think if you could have a window into the gears of high government, you wouldn't be shocked by all the conspiracies, you'd be shocked by the true lack of sophistication that many of our leaders possess. I truly believe that most of them couldn't weave a good conspiracy to save their souls. 

[wolfbait]

If  WDFW were worried about making money from hunters they wouldn't have planted wolves in the first place. I think what many people don't understand is, the wolf is a tool much like the spotted owl. That being said once cattlemen are run off the public lands and hunting is shut down, closing down public lands will be much easier, which is the goal. WDFW buying up every piece of land they can get, etc. adds to the end results. Thats why the biologists for WDFW are on W-H pushing for more habitat.

Wait just a minute. So your saying the WDFW has been purchasing private property (that was previously off limits to the public) in order to lock the public out of land that was previously unavailable to them??? Did I get that right or does my tinfoil antenna need adjusting???

 

THE WILDLANDS PROJECT  http://nwri.org/the-wildlands-project/

Would you prefer Ted Turner?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/11/28/ted-turner-massive-land-purchases-generate-suspicion/

$12,000.00 elk hunts, that sounds affordable.

Everyone has a price and there are a lot of wealthy people out there looking to acquire cheap ranch land for themselves or to subdivide.

I'll take my chances on public land, at least I have some say in what happens to it when I vote.

"Wolves and Livestock can't Coexist Period,"
Sharon Beck, a rancher and past president of the Oregon Cattlemen's Association, told the AP. "Their [environmentalists] agenda is to get us off the public lands".
Brooks Fahy, executive director of the Predator Defense Institute in green Eugene, doesn't deny it: "Fifty percent of Oregon is prime wolf habitat…that has essentially been trampled.…The West is being treated like it was a giant feedlot.…We don't see any gray areas.…We want livestock off of public lands".
In the spring of 2000 Turner -- in cooperation with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks -- had a large holding pen and related facilities built on his Flying D Ranch south of Bozeman, Montana. They've kept dozens of captured wolves there and have tried -- using Pavlovian behavioral methods -- to get them off the drug of attacking cattle and sheep. Turner also hired his own wildlife pointyheads to assist in this project.
A calf or lamb is placed in the pen, and as the wolves -- wearing electro-shock collars -- approach within a few feet, they receive a rude electric shock (PETA call your office!) that discourages further curiosity. Many wolves that went through this program (that plainly doesn't work) have been released back into the wild, where they have resumed their livestock depredations in nearby Paradise Valley. The Washington state female was part of a small pack relocated to the remote Yaak Valley of northwestern Montana, hard against the Canadian border and hundreds of miles from Turner's ranch. From there she made her lone eighty-mile migration to the Colville, Washington area: "To a wolf, that's like an afternoon walk," Ed Bangs, wolf recovery team leader for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, told the AP.
As "experimental" wolves expand their ranges in the Northern Rockies and Pacific Northwest, environmental groups are cynically using such tools as the Endangered Species Act to limit commercial activity on and access to public lands, and they have allies in the federal agencies. We have seen this recently in the infamous lynx study scandal involving the U.S. Forest Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and in the lately published report by the National Academy of Sciences on the erring of federal officials in cutting off irrigation water to protect three species of fish in last summer's Klamath Falls, Oregon "farmers vs. suckerfish" struggle.
That Ted Turner, "Defenders of Wildlife" and their ilk have ingratiated themselves into federally initiated but cash-strapped local wildlife programs by passing fat checks around does not bode well for stockgrowers in the West. The region's generation-old environmental debate is increasingly being influenced by whoever has the biggest bank accounts and hence the best lawyers. It behooves the Bush administration to officially end this era of Clintonian tyrannical malfeasance and corruption in the West, that allows for outside environmentalists to do their mischief with their own elitist interests in mind.
"We're not raising beef for wolves," says Sharon Beck. "We're raising it for profit."
And that, dear Mrs. Beck -- in the eyes of the West's enlightened elite -- is an unpardonable sin. It makes one wonder who the predators on the range really are.
http://spectator.org/archives/2002/03/0 … -the-loose

Dixie Lee Ray regarding William Riley of the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/esaframes.htm
Fall 1992
"There is a deliberate and quite outspoken attack on the whole idea of people owning private property. Mr. William Riley, the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, has said publicly on a number of occasions that he does not believe that people should have the right to own private property.
To use his words, 'The ownership of private property is a quaint anachronism.' He has called for a repeal of the fifth amendment as it affects the right of private property. There are two laws that have been passed by the Congress that are being used to take property away from people. One is the Endangered Species Act, and the other one happens to be the Clean Water Act." - Dixie Lee Ray, scientist, recipient of the United Nations Peace Prize and former Governor of Washington State, in an interview with the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion & Liberty, Special Edition, Fall 1992.
Full interview at: http://www.acton.org/publicat/randl/interview.php?id=52
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[villageidiot]

Whether you agree with Wolfbait or not about wolves being planted really doesn't matter.  We now have wolves and WDFW shows their hand when they will spend any amount of money trying to convict anybody that kills a wolf.  The Twisp rancher was spared no mercy from them from killng wolves that killed a dog and calf.  Their was no search warrant, they trumped up charges that were not true all to get a new stripe on their suit.  The rancher had to throw in the towel because he spent his meager retirement in lawyer fees.
 They've seen the effects wolves have on our wildlife yet support bringing back this cancer that will destroy hunting.  They bought the Golden Doe ranch in Twisp for wolf habitat.  Is this the behavior of a dept. that wants to preserve our hunting?

[wolfbait]

Whether you agree with Wolfbait or not about wolves being planted really doesn't matter.  We now have wolves and WDFW shows their hand when they will spend any amount of money trying to convict anybody that kills a wolf.  The Twisp rancher was spared no mercy from them from killng wolves that killed a dog and calf.  Their was no search warrant, they trumped up charges that were not true all to get a new stripe on their suit.  The rancher had to throw in the towel because he spent his meager retirement in lawyer fees.
 They've seen the effects wolves have on our wildlife yet support bringing back this cancer that will destroy hunting.  They bought the Golden Doe ranch in Twisp for wolf habitat.  Is this the behavior of a dept. that wants to preserve our hunting?

Yep, you might think after seventy years wolves decided to move to the Methow Valley, and take up residents a few miles out of Twisp :roll eyes:. But people start seeing WDFW and along with the USFWS releasing wolves in 2009, and since then all around WA state, and it doesn't take long to add two and two together and you have many wolves in several areas.

The villageidiot is right in the fact we now have wolves with no control, we have a state game agency that tries much like a steer in controlling predators. All the while playing the game that wolves are endangered to their brain-washed people who haven't seen the truth yet. If you like your doctor you can keep him/her, shooting for those who don't know the outcome, the same people who have been brain-washed by the USFWS and biologists.

Look at the USFWS and WDFW's stance on predators, and ask yourself how long will it be, before hunting seasons will be curtailed to feed predators?

I'm happy to see there more people on WA hunting that are starting to question WDFW about their wolf program and protecting predators above game herds and people.